The Official Euro 2012 Natter Thread..!

[Brainbomb]

Yeah - the game (up until extra time) was good and things were happening all the time - many good chances from both teams, shouldn't have gone nil-nil.

Compare that to Spain who once the scored a goal did nothing but stall for time making for a really boring game. Oh how I wished France would score a goal - not because I particularly fancy them over Spain but just to see a good game again and not that lazy boring bullshit the cowardly Spanish players put up...

[highland cow]

I think England were unlucky. Although Italy played all the 'football', to me they never looked like scoring (I know they hit the woodwork twice but either of those would have been a total fluke had it gone in)

Balotelli seemed obsessed with scoring a spectacular goal but if he'd had some of that Shearer/Linekar 'they all count' attitude then he could have bagged a hat-trick.

I reckon the manager is too scared to drop him, knowing what a tantrum he would have in the press.

England played to their current modest means and I thought looked more likely to nick a goal.

Maybe they would have done if there players weren't so knackered!

I think Gerrard was one of England's best players over the tournament but he plainly just ran out of steam.

As for the penalty shoot-out perhaps Joe Hart should just concentrate rather than trying to put the penalty takers off. He looked a total knob sticking his tongue out and other childish stuff like that.

I have to say that I cheered Pirlo's penalty when it went in. He looked at Hart with total disdain and then took that cheeky penalty.

Class.

[babycart]

that lazy boring bullshit the cowardly Spanish players put up...

Lazy it's not, boring maybe, Busquets and Pique are extremely annoying but not cowardly. Alba was a revelation and Alonso earned his glory, too.
The Spanish passing game isn't supposed to be beautiful (although plenty appreciate it). It's main aim is to tire, frustrate and grind down the opposition. And then break their hearts. They deserved their win against France because they controlled the game and were always threatening.
Portugal are the only team who seem to have got cooking, and I reckon they could be in with a chance, especially with Mourinho sticking his oar in. But those German lummoxes won't stand a chance if they meet Spain again.

[relkeel]

That was f***ing gruelling last night.

[d7bohs]

Agree. For the first nil-nil of the tournament, I thought it was good value.
My son, being Spanish, likes to count passes and regularly gets up into the 20s when Spain are playing. He didn't get into double figures last night before he gave up.
My favourite bit was the England free kick where Rooney decided to forget all that tiki-taka bollocks and just charge up the field straight into the Eyetie machine guns. I was roaring.

Over 60 mins it was a pretty good England performance. Hodgson's gotten the best out of Gerrard in an England shirt, the defence, Terry excepted, were excellent, and Walcott, Ox-C and Carroll (!) will be stalwarts in the future. Add a fit Wilshere, and there's a lot to build on. I think the FA made the right decision, and if they stick with the project, England will do well.

[Brainbomb]

Lazy it's not, boring maybe, Busquets and Pique are extremely annoying but not cowardly. Alba was a revelation and Alonso earned his glory, too.
The Spanish passing game isn't supposed to be beautiful (although plenty appreciate it). It's main aim is to tire, frustrate and grind down the opposition. And then break their hearts. They deserved their win against France because they controlled the game and were always threatening.
Portugal are the only team who seem to have got cooking, and I reckon they could be in with a chance, especially with Mourinho sticking his oar in. But those German lummoxes won't stand a chance if they meet Spain again.

Sorry, but it is cowardly. If they were paid after how much people all over the world enjoyed watching their performance they would have to get new jobs. Which is why I think there should be some kinda rule how long time it can go before you shoot at the goal - if the time limit expires, hand the ball over to the other team so we get some action.

[ginghamkitchen]

I'm sorry, but there speaks someone who doesn't really like football.

[Brainbomb]

I'm sorry, but there speaks someone who doesn't really like football.

Haha! You're right in a way.

All sports are just modern gladiator games - it's all about thrills and entertainment, and Spain just doesn't deliver. They may have won the game, but without any of the thrills and entertainment values I crave.

But honestly - how passive can you get? Wouldn't it be possible to find perfect placements where you can just stand and pass the ball around among yourselves until time is up? More or less at least - if all teams all around the world had played like Spain did I doubt it would've been such a big sport because it would be really exciting until the first goal and then you might as well go home. Luckily though, most teams do put up a good effort instead.

But let's not debate this further as you're kinda right - I don't really like any sports but do watch bigger tournaments like this because of the entertainment in watching good games.

[babycart]

Sorry, but it is cowardly. If they were paid after how much people all over the world enjoyed watching their performance they would have to get new jobs. Which is why I think there should be some kinda rule how long time it can go before you shoot at the goal - if the time limit expires, hand the ball over to the other team so we get some action.

Spain have had more shots than any other team in the tournament so far.

Still, I spoke to a Barca fan a few months ago who whispered the ultimate heresy - that he'd enjoyed watching Real Madrid more than the Messi Show last season, and I'd agree with him. Xavi and Iniesta not only dominate, but they never get injured, never get ill, hardly ever get subbed. They're so good I think they might be androids.

[medlar]

England players look at the spherical object the gaffer has placed in front of them:

"What's that boss?" they all cry in unison.

"It's called a football" says the gaffer.

"What's it for?" ask the players, with confusion etched across their collective brows.

"It's your enemy. You need to boot it as far away as quickly as possible".

"Aha!" proclaim the England players.

etc etc ad infinitum amen

[Filthy Rich]

I do understand why some are annoyed or bored by Spain's tactics. Personally I find it a time when there is an interesting clash of styles and at the moment no-one seems to have figured out a way to beat this one (er, apart from England in that friendly of course). Tactics change every now and again in football and this is one of those times. It will be very interesting to see how they do against Germany if they meet. At the moment they tend to only win by the odd goal which means that they are vulnerable to one moment of genius or luck from the other side as when they lost to Switzerland in the last world cup. Also without Villa it seems that they lack the ability to force the issue at the moment. Or at least that's what I thought whenI wondered if they would be able to come back against Italy but they responded pretty quickly.
I do think that a lot of these "Yawn, Spain" comments are kinda sour grapes. What they do isn't that easy to do, it's not something that everyone else could do so it's easier to moan about it. I guess I kinda do hope that some more rip-roaring team beats them but at the moment Spain are posing the question to which everyone needs to find the answer.
I am a bit wary though of the way that number of passes has suddenly become such an important stat - I remember Arsenal beating Barcelona at the Emirates a couple of years back and the Barce press were pointing at their superior pass ratio - load of bollocks, Arsenal's passing (at least in the second half which I saw) was better because it created chances and, in fact, goals. Likewise Chelsea - the one side that have consistently out-thought Barcelona over recent years - being branded "Unjust" winners.

[jahshabby]

I am a bit wary though of the way that number of passes has suddenly become such an important stat - I remember Arsenal beating Barcelona at the Emirates a couple of years back and the Barce press were pointing at their superior pass ratio - load of bollocks, Arsenal's passing (at least in the second half which I saw) was better because it created chances and, in fact, goals. Likewise Chelsea - the one side that have consistently out-thought Barcelona over recent years - being branded "Unjust" winners.

That confirms it – I love you Rich...

[babycart]

.
I am a bit wary though of the way that number of passes has suddenly become such an important stat - I remember Arsenal beating Barcelona at the Emirates a couple of years back and the Barce press were pointing at their superior pass ratio - load of bollocks, Arsenal's passing (at least in the second half which I saw) was better because it created chances and, in fact, goals. Likewise Chelsea - the one side that have consistently out-thought Barcelona over recent years - being branded "Unjust" winners.

I'd agree. The passing is just an aspect of the possession game that Barca , and thus Spain, have perfected. I saw Guardiola give a talk here a few years ago when he made it absolutely clear that possession was the foundation of the game. It cancels out the attack-counterattack stuff that spectators love, which often favours bigger, stronger players than Spain have got and to which they're still vulnerable.

Spain get plenty of chances, but as they have so much of the ball they often look like they're fannying about. And they do have problems finishing - the best recent strikers in La Liga have been Forlan, Eto'o, Higuain, Ronaldo, Messi and Villa, and I haven't seen Villa on the scorching form he was in at Valencia for a while

[Filthy Rich]

"I'd agree. The passing is just an aspect of the possession game that Barca , and thus Spain, have perfected. I saw Guardiola give a talk here a few years ago when he made it absolutely clear that possession was the foundation of the game. It cancels out the attack-counterattack stuff that spectators love, which often favours bigger, stronger players than Spain have got and to which they're still vulnerable."

Yeah, I'd agree, it's just an aspect of possesion football but clinging to it when your side has been beaten is foolish. That argument is as narrow-minded as those who claim that this kind of possession football is sterile.
I'm not sure it cancels out counterattack stuff though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcHY8qTYhnA

Or do you mean that it changes the rhythm of the game from attack at one end followed by an attack at the other end?

[jahshabby]

Ramires's pass was amazing...

[babycart]

Yeah, I'd agree, it's just an aspect of possesion football but clinging to it when your side has been beaten is foolish. That argument is as narrow-minded as those who claim that this kind of possession football is sterile.
I'm not sure it cancels out counterattack stuff though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcHY8qTYhnA

Or do you mean that it changes the rhythm of the game from attack at one end followed by an attack at the other end?

Guardiola said "If you've got the ball all the time, you'll never lose." Obviously that never happens, and counterattacks always occur, but the more possession you have, the less likely it is. The downside of that is that you're also less likely to catch the defence hopping, so it starts to look like picking a lock.

As for Spain's lack of a Plan B, I've never seen too much criticism of that outside the British press. Plan B seems to be 'bring on Navas to skin 'em up the right', (I'd prefer Pedro on the left) while using Silva or Fabregas as a false 9 seems to me just an even more concentrated form of Plan A.

[Filthy Rich]

Guardiola said "If you've got the ball all the time, you'll never lose." Obviously that never happens, and counterattacks always occur, but the more possession you have, the less likely it is. The downside of that is that you're also less likely to catch the defence hopping, so it starts to look like picking a lock.

Yeah, I wonder about the lack of practice the defence gets though or maybe it's a question of concentration. With that Drogba goal there are more than enough defenders there but no-one picks him up and they're all taken out of the game by one pass - probably cos it's the first time they've had to defend during the game. I wonder what the ratio of goals conceded to attacks against them is for Barce - probably quite high.

[babycart]

Yeah, I wonder about the lack of practice the defence gets though or maybe it's a question of concentration. With that Drogba goal there are more than enough defenders there but no-one picks him up and they're all taken out of the game by one pass - probably cos it's the first time they've had to defend during the game. I wonder what the ratio of goals conceded to attacks against them is for Barce - probably quite high.

The defenders are often way up the field- I often forget that Alves is a defender - and Puyol is famous for last-ditch tackles that save them.
Didn't watch Barca much last year, but in the previous two seasons they often went a goal down early on before the machine had warmed up. Then they'd go up a couple of gears and exhaust the opposition before winning in the second half.

The reason they lost La Liga last year was that the decent second-tier clubs like Valencia, Seville and Villareal worked out how to hold them to draws. Oddly, it's always been the dodgiest teams that actually manage to beat them though - Getafe, Hercules, Osasuna, Real Sociedad, Arsenal...

[d7bohs]

it's always been the dodgiest teams that actually manage to beat them though - Getafe, Hercules, Osasuna, Real Sociedad, Arsenal...

Fishing with dynamite that one....

[babycart]

Great match, but Germany were well dodgy last night. Even England realised you need to defend against Italy.

Looking forward to the final far more than the Seleccion/Mannschaft game everyone had already pencilled in. It's going to be a proper game of football.

I thought Portugal were excellent on Wednesday, too. Not quite excellent enough, but I reckon they'll get even stronger.

[Sie Vulture]

Just got home after working away for a week and popped into the local for a pint - was promptly reminded that I'd got Italy in the Euro 2012 sweepstake...

Guess who I'll be cheering for..!

[Sie Vulture]

Oh well. £25 runner up prize it is then...

[highland cow]

Shearer finally managed a bit of amusing punditry.

It was a mistake of course.

[babycart]

Great stuff, but Spain desperately needs to sign up some English terrace wits to put an ends to the 'campeones, campeones o eh o eh o eh' monotony.
Driving around tooting your horn gets a bit old, too, especially when the police stop you for it when Leicester get promoted.