"Vinyl" v "Vinyls" - the debate continues...

[The Divine One]

My wife, a record collector AND a linguist, showed me this article arguing the case for VINYLS!

Eris-Adams even gets quoted in the feature. I particularly like the comment: "This would seem, at least by first impression, to be as clear an example of artificial linguistic in-group snobbery as we could ask for. People who favor vinyl records are a self-defined in-group to begin with, and here we have a fake linguistic rule to further establish who is in and (more importantly) who is out."

[Rich Hero]

My wife, a record collector AND a linguist, showed me this article arguing the case for VINYLS!

I'd be more inclined to pay attention to Mr Lieberman's argument if he didn't think that the argument was over whether to use 'three vinyl' or 'three vinyls', or if he didn't think that 'lexicalized' was a word. Still, I'm not a millenial hipster so he's not referring to me.

And you might also have missed a fascinating case of peeve emergence: the "rule" that one of these objects is called a "vinyl", while (say) three of them should be called "three vinyl", never "three vinyls".

Does your wife argue in favour of vinyls or vinyl as the plural, Andrew?

[eric-adams]

yeahhh ive been quoted.

vinyls! it totally sounds wrong.

though it could be that hipsters are saying vinyls to be cool, to go along with their wonderfull original fashions and nice glasses

[jahshabby]

The plural of vinyl is records surely?

I never call a record a vinyl - the opposition is a false one.

[medlar]

Do any of you, when asked about hobbies, interests etc, say "Oh, I like/collect vinyl"? Or do you say "Oh, I like/collect records"?

I personally don't use the vinyl word, and as for "vinyls"

[emperor tomato ketchup]

Do any of you, when asked about hobbies, interests etc, say "Oh, I like/collect vinyl"? Or do you say "Oh, I like/collect records"?

I personally don't use the vinyl word, and as for "vinyls"

Neither, I say I worry chickens. It's less embarressing.

[SlippedDisc]

I talk about buying vinyl and playing vinyl.

'Vinyls' sounds wrong to my ears, but I'm not too bothered by it. The download generation all seem to refer to them as vinyls, so it's already become normal usage imo. It's a short step conceptually from talking about DJing with vinyl and shops selling vinyl to those things they spin/sell being called 'vinyls'.

Still sounds wrong, but I think we'll just have to get used to it.

[babycart]

He goes right off the garden path talking about deer and fish and chineses and stuff, and completely ignores my musings on the nominalisation of adjectives on Eric's thread, which I maintain to be the correct justification of the neologism.

To repeat: if vinyls is wrong, how come 45s, lps and 12"s are OK?

The comments about use of 'vinyls' and 'shellacs' in the 50s and 60s are interesting.

[SlippedDisc]

Just found this definition of 'vinyl' in an online dictionary;

"strong plastic which can be bent, and which is used for making floor coverings, furniture, clothing, etc. or (in the past) records"

Ouch....!

[jahshabby]

To repeat: if vinyls is wrong, how come 45s, lps and 12"s are OK?

I'd say because although you might refer to 'a 45', 'a 12"' or 'an LP', you wouldn't say 'a vinyl'. It isn't an acceptable plural as it's not the acceptable singular unless you're talking about a quantity of records. Then you might use vinyl, but only in the way that you might say, 'I bought loads of pork' when you came home with three-dozen sausages. You wouldn't call them 'porks' though...

[babycart]

"Records" is fine face-to-face in English-speaking countries, where the only risk is you might be directed to a metal cabinet full of dental files. However, the fact that most 'record' shops have stocked mainly CDS for decades probably means that sellers of vintage vinyl wanted to specify their wares.

In Spanish and other languages, 'discos' and 'disques' needs to be qualified, or you'll end up looking at tons of CDs.

Don't even ask me about searching for Spanish disco records.

[jahshabby]

In Spanish and other languages, 'discos' and 'disques' needs to be qualified, or you'll end up looking at tons of CDs.

Good point. So I guess this was the origin of the usage then?

[babycart]

I'd say because although you might refer to 'a 45', 'a 12"' or 'an LP', you wouldn't say 'a vinyl'. It isn't an acceptable plural as it's not the acceptable singular unless you're talking about a quantity of records..

But you only refer to a "45" due to usage. It's short for '45 rpm record'.
I don't see any reason why that's acceptable and an abbreviation of 'vinyl record' shouldn't be.

[babycart]

Good point. So I guess this was the origin of the usage then?

I'd guess it's more to do with online record sellers, who generally use vinyl as a classification, then subdivide further.
eBay keeps it old style for the purists, though

[jahshabby]

But you only refer to a "45" due to usage. It's short for '45 rpm record'.
I don't see any reason why that's acceptable and an abbreviation of 'vinyl record' shouldn't be.

But 45 and 33 or 12" are defining adjectives in a way that vinyl isn't, they say something about the record and take the classification of the object further. Vinyl record is (almost) tautologically pointless. Apart from, as you mentioned, countries where 'discs' not 'record' is the noun.

[Bud Peyote]

Apart from, as you mentioned, countries where 'discs' not 'record' is the noun.

Actually I've wondered about this when this argument comes up. Why can't cd's be referred to as 'records' when they are discs of recordings just as much as vinyl records? Is it impossible to think that 'records' would have catched on for cd's as well back when they were introduced, just as we use the equivalent of 'vinyl discs' and 'cd discs' here?

[babycart]

Vinyl record is (almost) tautologically pointless.

I think it got a bit blurry. I've met folks who call their CDs their record collection, and artists have long been releasing lps that never saw a vinyl release, even though an lp cd makes little sense. Literally speaking, of course, a CD is a 'record', and as tangible recorded music media become less important, it's unsurprising that that word might not make immediate sense to people to whom Cds are increasingly every bit as retro as 78s.

Still, I recognise the instinctive grammatical discomfort that 'vinyls' causes as a plural uncountable, and don't agreee that it's "artificial linguistic in-group snobbery."

[Rich Hero]

Actually I've wondered about this when this argument comes up. Why can't cd's be referred to as 'records' when they are discs of recordings just as much as vinyl records? Is it impossible to think that 'records' would have catched on for cd's as well back when they were introduced, just as we use the equivalent of 'vinyl discs' and 'cd discs' here?

None of that's unreasonable, except that records actually existed by the time CDs were introduced and so using the word to refer to another, different technology would have been confusing. You could argue the same for tapes, too.

[babycart]

Actually I've wondered about this when this argument comes up. Why can't cd's be referred to as 'records' when they are discs of recordings just as much as vinyl records? Is it impossible to think that 'records' would have catched on for cd's as well back when they were introduced, just as we use the equivalent of 'vinyl discs' and 'cd discs' here?

I don't know about where you are, but records were always discos in Spain and disques in France, so the trade name Compact Disc was easy to assimilate. In Britain and the US I guess the term was kept separate for marketing purposes.

I don't know how they coped in Brasil, where discos compactos were 45s.

[Sie Vulture]

I was okay with this debate whilst Barney was talking about pork sausages, I'm lost again now.

[The Divine One]

Does your wife argue in favour of vinyls or vinyl as the plural, Andrew?

I just asked and she said she just wants emptier shelves. Pity I bought a hundred vinyls last night...

Think the point of the article is that in the 60s and before that, the plural was a used term. But record colkectors have such an ego, they're quite happy to bend grammar rules...

[Little Jimmy Oddman]

I'm not buying that article. Despite what it says about "countification", there are plenty of nouns where that doesn't hold true. As well as vinyl, posters here may enjoy art, jazz, creativity and fornication in a similarly s-less manner. Like china, tarmac and silverware, vinyl is based on the material it is made from and should be left as it is for the plural. Like sex and football, vinyl has a different meanig with an s on the end.

[Sam]

Primarily in the US, the word for a multiple of Lego bricks is "Legos". To me, this sounds as wrong as "vinyls".

[giantchicken]

Neither, I say I worry chickens. It's less embarressing.

You know ETK, that worries me....and I accept vinyl as a collective noun for a number of records when distinguishing from CDs - otherwise 'records' will do for me too. The plural of vinyl to distinguish say, poly-vinyl acetate from other forms of vinyl is actually 'vinyls'.

'Vinyls' to mean 'records' is a bit silly but not half as annoying as people who use 'key' as an adjective without a qualifying noun...that really makes me mad, but it's difficult to fit on a T-shirt.

[jakartajive]

I'd be more inclined to pay attention to Mr Lieberman's argument if he didn't think that the argument was over whether to use 'three vinyl' or 'three vinyls', or if he didn't think that 'lexicalized' was a word. Still, I'm not a millenial hipster so he's not referring to me.

I have no strong feelings about vinyl or vinyls, but I can officially confirm that LEXICALIZED is very much a real word.
In my line of work, it's common parlance, Rich.

As indeed is DELEXICALIZED, as in delexicalized verbs.

I'll stop now.

And get back to doing some work!

[Rich Hero]

I have no strong feelings about vinyl or vinyls, but I can officially confirm that LEXICALIZED is very much a real word.
In my line of work, it's common parlance, Rich.

As indeed is DELEXICALIZED, as in delexicalized verbs.

It sounds like such an horrible Americanism! And since he's at Penn U I can't even climb down by suggesting he use an 's' in the place of that 'z'.

[ashra]

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[Great Day]

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