African Records

[Blast kid]

Recently, I bought two african records:
Verckys et l'orchestre Veve s/t
V/a. - African party 2

Now, I don't like them. I didn't know any of the bands (the african party has some promising names, like "orchestre African Jazz" and "orchestre O.K. Jazz"), so I picked 'em up (1 Euro each), hoping that I was in a lucky day.
They got the same typical sound (high vocals, high guitars) that I don't like. Now, my question is: are there good African records I should look for, or are all African records like these, and just aren't my taste?

[francis]

a. it depends what your taste is.
b. yes, and whatever your taste is there is something for you. But it depends, and lots of it is not something you can really 'look for' in the way you might look for other things, just due to rarity, obscurity etc. But I think it is in general something of an acquired taste, some people just don't get on with the vocals/ arrangements/ production/ style etc etc. I know lots of funk bods who just aren't interested unless it doesn't sound african. Which is hardly ever.

There's a Verckys Lp I want ('Verckys in Paris' I think), and I might be interested in any early TP OK jazz LPs too, pm me

[left hand corner]

a. it depends what your taste is.
b. yes, and whatever your taste is there is something for you.

I agree with these two points. There are some amazing African records in a whole load of muscial genres.

Personally, I have heard some amazing funk. I'm not talking about the AfroBeat style of Fela (which is good stuff but not 100% my sort of thing), but short and sharp raw funk 45s that are equal to anything out of America. The only problem is that they are very hard to get hold off and when you do, they tend to be rather well worn. An additional problem is that this music isn't described as funk but can come under a whole host of other names such as Congo, Rhumba, etc.

[bongolia]

(edit - beaten by LHC, was a response to Francis...)
and of course there's no such thing really as 'African' records - countries have their own musics, and there's a huge range of genres across the continent...

[francis]

yes quite. the range of styles is immense. I mean, its mostly noticeable african, in the same way that most north american music is noticeably north american, but you could never even really make a decision about congolese music - not even about the particular styles of congolese music you turned up there - from 2 chance finds. I'm trying to be VV polite here (must remember, this is not funk 45, this is not funk 45, this is not funk 45...).

[teddyrosso]

TP OK jazz is a typical rumba guitar style, originally initiated in Zaire in the 50's. It had it's roots in Cuban music at that time. Rumours had it, there was some Cuban players doing a gig in Kinshasa and a lot of the local players picked up on it and developed their own style and approach. Focusing on tough high-tone guitar dynamics.

This kind of music requires multiple listening, especially for us who is used to western ear type stuff. Give your African records a second spin and musically it will grow on you. If I where to recommend any artist, check out the stuff from Franco, or maybe even Kanda Bongo Man, look for guitar players like Diblo Dibli or Ringo Starr (!)

If you are looking for more jazz beat oriented African music, go for the west African music from Ghana, Ethiopia, Cameroon and of course Nigeria.

[bongolia]

TP OK jazz is a typical rumba guitar style, originally initiated in Zaire in the 50's. It had it's roots in Cuban music at that time. Rumours had it, there was some Cuban players doing a gig in Kinshasa and a lot of the local players picked up on it and developed their own style and approach. Focusing on tough high-tone guitar dynamics.

This kind of music requires multiple listening, especially for us who is used to western ear type stuff. Give your African records a second spin and musically it will grow on you. If I where to recommend any artist, check out the stuff from Franco, or maybe even Kanda Bongo Man, look for guitar players like Diblo Dibli or Ringo Starr (!)

If you are looking for more jazz beat oriented African music, go for the west African music from Ghana, Ethiopia, Cameroon and of course Nigeria.

Ethiopia isn't West Africa...? i love what little (5 LPs worth?) Ethopian stuff i've heard - Mulatu mostly, and his productions. mysterious sounding stuff and definitely recommended. the Sudanese stuff i've heard is also very nice - Middle Eastern sounding. Senegal and Mali are other obvious countries to pick out.

i know someone really into African music, and who reckons Congolese stuff is the best. said visiting Kinshasa was amazing for music...

[francis]

theres a very good book on congolese music called 'Rumba on the River', I forget who its by.

Theres plenty of 60s-70s african music available on reissue, since unless you want to wait for years and then be prepared to spend £100s for often not very good condition records, actually collecting originals is very hard and expensive work. Unless you actually take off over to somewhere and try your luck 'in the field'. If its funk/jazz sound stuff you, then start with fela, the comps & reissues on Kona, Soundway and teh now defunct Strut, the ethiopiques cds, the rough guide series (the nigeria and ghana one is nice, and includes the famously-bigged-up-in-big-daddy-by-P.Lehman-and-thus-very-expensive-on-OG Funky Highlife by CK Mann), and if its opther stuff, then the choices are more or less limitless. For more straight up jaz, I reckon South africa holds the crown, and theres that interesting brit/S.A. jazz nexus in the fabulous blue notes, latterly the brotherhood of breath (the 2 LPs on Neon and RCA are amazing, and those that can handle a bit of free jazz should check 'Blue Notes for Mongezi' on Ogun, recorded after Mongezi Feza died [I think he died of pneumonia in a London squat - all of them were savagely strung out on heroin for years]: the remaining four entered the studio without consultation or discussion and recorded solidly for four hours, and then released edited highlights as a 2LP, fucking incredible) and those connected to them. Serious jazz buffs have rated Johnny Dyani to me as the best bass player in the world while he lived, Louis Moholo is up there with the greatest drummers of all time, as indeed are Chris McGregor, Mongezi Feza and Dudu Pukwana on their respective instruments. On the contemporary tip, I think Tinariwen are fucking ace, heavy desert-rock, I'd love to see them live. There must be some interesting Kwaito if you check for it (never heard any), and theres a fucking ton of african hiphop - again, I don't really know whats good and I doubt you can get it hear (Daara J aren't bad actually), but there must be some, given the fact that I read somewhere that there are over 1000 hiphop outfits in Dakar alone...

Other faves: Salif Keita's last LP was excellent, Ali Farka Toure is the daddy ('Radio Mali' is the one for me), and so on and so forth... oh i don't know, theres loads

[The Divine One]

The moral of the story, Blast Kid, is don't write-off an entire massive continents musical output, based on 2 records you found for a euro...

e.g. last week I picked up 2 records in a charity shop for 50p each - Phil Collins and Mrs Mills Party Time - is there any music from the UK which is any good?

[francis]

yes. I was trying not to say that, but it was hard.

[Rich Hero]

I know nothing but I do know that a style termed 'heavy desert rock' sounds fucking ace!

[left hand corner]

I know nothing but I do know that a style termed 'heavy desert rock' sounds fucking ace!

I caught these dudes on 'Later' - they look as good as they sound. A perfect looking rock group.

[pokester]

Diblo Dibli

is this a soukous player ? diblo dibala style ?

[bongolia]

I caught these dudes on 'Later' - they look as good as they sound. A perfect looking rock group.

are they the North African nomads playing blues? or is that another group? those guys sound great (and supposedly the blues scale comes from the Sahara and the Sahel originally...)

[wayne]

are they the North African nomads playing blues? or is that another group? those guys sound great (and supposedly the blues scale comes from the Sahara and the Sahel originally...)

True, I think - if you listen to Malian and Senegalese music, especially, the sound is so close to stuff like Robert Johnson it's fairly obvious, even allowing for some reverse blues-to-africa influences in the years since (Ali farka Toure and Mansour Seck are prime examples). If you see Mansour Seck/Baaba Maal's 'Djam Leelii' set, get it - a beautiful acoustic set, and one of those LPs that does seem grab people who get turned off by the more hi-life/soukous kinds of sounds (those very high guitars, uptempo songs etc you mention don't really do it for me either, on the whole).

Same with latin/cuban styles, too, big back and forth mutual influences there too (people like Orchestre Baobab, among others, basically play in a mode that's african, but sounds very cuban). If you're not after funk, just good music, I'd recommend Oumou Sangare (Malian vocalist, beautiful stuff), or you could try one of the (two or three?) 'Woussoulou Sound' comps, which basically gather some amazing Malian women singers (including Sangare). Both the volumes that I've heard have amazing highlights on them.

Some of Youssou N'Dour's earlier stuff (the Virgin Earthworks 'Immigres' set is a good starting point - layered drums in a style he calls 'mbalax') but tread carefully as a lot of his LPs are Westernised, and a bit ropey - cassette releases in Senegal itself are apparently considered superior in every way to his 'official' Western releases. (I've heard good things about his last set, though I've not heard it yet). If you DO like that 80s electronic Paris sound (Ibrahim Sylla seems to be the main producer of it - afraid it sounds very off to my ears, but I know it has its fans) then there's lots of stuff that came out through labels like Sterns through the 80s out there - I think Salif Keita's 'Soro' was the breakthrough in the English market, but I perfer his less slick/flashy stuff, personally.

Generally, lots out there, and bound to be something you'll like, but like others have said, it's basically as diverse as 'European', 'North American' or 'Asian' music so it's a question of pinpointing the regions and styles that grab your ears and narrow it down a bit...on the plus side, there are plenty of comps and LPs out there that turn up fairly often at booters etc, and don't go for very much money at all, partly because there was such widespread distribution during the big 'world music' push of the mid-80s to early 90s...

EDIT: Oh, and on the North African/Middle-Eastern type tip, there's the Devil's Anvil LP, which has a cheap reissue floating about. And some of the Algerian/Morroccan/Egyptian stuff is worth getting hold of, too...totally different style again if you get into that.

[john stapleton]

I saw Tinawaren at Glastonbury last year and they were great. In fact they're playing in Bristol tonight, but so are the Earlies, who are also great. How come there's sod-all on and then two amazing bands on the same night at different venues?
bugger.

[bongolia]

Some of Youssou N'Dour's earlier stuff (the Virgin Earthworks 'Immigres' set is a good starting point,

oh yeah, his early Etoile de Dakar stuff is great. i think there's a comp or reissue just out - i must investigate!

[emperor tomato ketchup]

I saw Tinawaren at Glastonbury last year and they were great. In fact they're playing in Bristol tonight, but so are the Earlies, who are also great. How come there's sod-all on and then two amazing bands on the same night at different venues?
bugger.

Well better than neither of them I suppose.

I saw Tinariwen at glasto too and was only disappointed insofar as my expectations were pretty high. They are great and very accesible if you like guitars.

[Blast kid]

The moral of the story, Blast Kid, is don't write-off an entire massive continents musical output, based on 2 records you found for a euro...

e.g. last week I picked up 2 records in a charity shop for 50p each - Phil Collins and Mrs Mills Party Time - is there any music from the UK which is any good?

Off course I know that I can't judge a continentes musical output on 2 common records, I just wanted to ask a) if these records are typical for the general african sound (if that exists) and b) what records I do should look out for. I guess I just formulated my question in the wrong way.

Thanx a lot for the tips on the records guys.

[bongolia]

hey, no problem. if you're looking for 'funky' stuff, then the Club Africa and Africafunk comps are good, and the Nigeria 70, Afro Baby, Ghana Sounds and Afro Rock comps are funky but with a more 'African' feel (in the sense you you were using it i think - the style of the vocals, the guitar sounds, etc).

[sermad]

Check out the orlando julius compilation. Some reet belters on there.

[left hand corner]

....and the new Jazzman radio show has a few funky African tunes being spun by a guy called Liam.

[emperor tomato ketchup]

hey, no problem. if you're looking for 'funky' stuff, then the Club Africa and Africafunk comps are good, and the Nigeria 70, Afro Baby, Ghana Sounds and Afro Rock comps are funky but with a more 'African' feel (in the sense you you were using it i think - the style of the vocals, the guitar sounds, etc).

Just listening to a tape of Club Africa and Ghana Sounds and the difference is noticable. I think a good proportion of the Club Africa stuff wasn't recorded there or is by US bands. Its still good but much more mainstream and less distinctivly african.