VV Tip: Local Tip Trip

**Ian Townsend** · 24-06-2005, 11:52 PM

Hot weather garden tidy meant a trip to the local tip tonight. Hadn't planned to but on arrival decided to explore their 'SHOP SHOP' (being the sign painted on the door of the walk-in container).

Remembered some VV-ers mentioning about tip-digging a while ago and it's an area I hadn't thought of.

Really pleased I did. Here's some I'm liking:

LP's
Lionel Hampton - Hamp
Peters & Lee - By Your Side (spot on LDJB & others ...She's a Mover..crackin')
David Bedford - Star Clusters, Nebulae etc..
David Munrow - Music from the Gothic Era (I like Baroque stuff...

)
Y Viva Espana / Bella Espana - Various Artists (fun stuff)
The Drum Suite - Manny Albam - Ernie Wilkins (was excited in a *breaks* way but a little humdrum on 1st listen)

12"
Got some truly dreadful lame disco too embarassed to list (doh!

)..but good disco/funk too

Bootsy Collins - Psychticbumpschool / What's a Telephone / Pinocchio (What's a Telephone is an excellent jam around the 'She's rather Be With Me' groove)

Harvey Mason - Till You Take My Love / nice What's Goin' On on B-side
Inner City Express - Fat On Funk / Shu Dig Dancin'

Boiling Point - Let's Get Funktified 1 & 2
Bunny Sigler - Let Me Party With You (Party etc)

45's
Linda Clifford - If My Friends Could / Runaway Love (like the B)
King Floyd - Body English
Manu Dibango - Big Blow / Aloko Party

(Aloko's great...bizarrely there were two copies of this

)
Don Covay - Travellin' in Heavy Traffic
Reggae Regulars - It's Coming
King Horror - Black Hole / Winston Groovey - Lover Come Back

Chuffed to find the last very, very lyrically rude one priced quite high in RRPG (under King Horror). Not the same buzz at all as finding something you know about but

nevertheless.

Sorry this is a kinda 'look what I found' thread...but...well...the local tip's a good VV tip.

**Lord Thames** · 25-06-2005, 11:21 AM

What's the cover of that Peters and Lee LP? I always check their LPs for '....Mover' but I've not found it yet!

Top marks on the David Munrow - crumhorns rock! He killed himself when he was quite young, I think, poor bloke.

**Ian Townsend** · 25-06-2005, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Thames

What's the cover of that Peters and Lee LP? I always check their LPs for '....Mover' but I've not found it yet!

Top marks on the David Munrow - crumhorns rock! He killed himself when he was quite young, I think, poor bloke.

MUST sort this piccy's thing...may have spare time to do so next weekend.

The cover of the Peters & Lee (Phillips gate - fold) is a big plain portrait of them both on a white background....and there were two copies at the tip! I just picked up what appeared to be the best one but the other was OK if I remember rightly.

I'll get back round there for you today ...it's literally 2 minutes from my house between me and the MK Bowl and I want to look again in the clearer light of day anyway.

I always enjoy earlier music and the David Munrow was extemely clean (looks unplayed...) on the Privelege label. It's a lovely listen on it's own to relax to...but I always have my sampling ears on as well...like you do. Sad he exited too soon...that is sometimes the lot of the most talented

On the subject of classical / baroque / gothic / opera etc... are there any price guides available...like a classical equivalent of the RRPG to give pointers??

Or any labels of particular merit?

I occasionally do the ebay research game of searching , say , 'baroque', clicking on 'highest priced first' and making a mental note of prices and what's actually attracting numerous bidders.

Good game...try it for Northern Soul and feel very poor indeed!

Going to do this researching a bit more seriously in the six week summer break...and add 'reggae' while I'm at it...an area I know f- all about!

I am always seeing loads and I was intrigued by Peretti finding a very highly - prized opera set a few weeks ago.

Mercenary I know...but someone out there might be very happy if I spot, rescue and pass on something really special....

**Lord Thames** · 25-06-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Townsend

The cover of the Peters & Lee (Phillips gate - fold) is a big plain portrait of them both on a white background....and there were two copies at the tip! I just picked up what appeared to be the best one but the other was OK if I remember rightly.
:

Oh, that one! Actually, now I think about it I don't think I've seen one of those for a while......

Don't know too much about the classical stuff, but I think the early stereo Deccas and HMVs fetch a few bob, as do first issue RCA Living Stereo ones - some years back I flogged some stereo Thomas Beechams on HMV, and knowing what I do now, I get the distinct feeling I was ripped off! I did keep the RCA Verdi Requiem (worth £25 ten years ago - dunno about these days) though - the Dies Irae is great!

**Ziggy_Stardust_72** · 25-06-2005, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Townsend

On the subject of classical / baroque / gothic / opera etc... are there any price guides available...like a classical equivalent of the RRPG to give pointers??

Or any labels of particular merit?

:

I have just started dabblin in dealing with classical stuff and its pretty hard to do. Where as we here in the hmmm none classical world like to have stuff thats original issue, we are not bothered if its 2nd press 3rd or 4th etc. In the Classical world if its not an Original its not worth Nowt (obviously there are exceptions).

You need to go for labels, but forget searching by Conductors/ composers, search by Cat Numbers.

Decca :- LXT, SXL2000, SXL6000 & SET's
HMV :- ALP, ASD, SAN
Columbia :- 33CX & SAX.

I find the Decca SXL2's and ASD 3 digits go for the most money.

This is basic info I picked up in "Rare Classical Record Price Guide" by Barry Browne. ISBN :- 0954512103. or click here if you are lazy

it only covers the labels and Cat No's listed above. I wouldn't rush out and buy it just yet as its the 2004 guide and the 2006 is out on 15-12-2005 featuring more labels.

If anyone has any LP's with any of the cat numbers listed above and wants to know guide price on them, post here and I will list the info.

**The Divine One** · 26-06-2005, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggy_Stardust_72

Decca :- LXT, SXL2000, SXL6000 & SET's
HMV :- ALP, ASD, SAN
Columbia :- 33CX & SAX

If you bought all those you'd end up with some amount of shite on your hands, and even if you were buying them for 50p a go, you'd still be struggling to break even. My advice is either get clued up or steer well clear...

And remember, it's only RARE classical records which are worth money and, surprise surprise... they're quite.... RARE!

**Ziggy_Stardust_72** · 26-06-2005, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by The Divine One

If you bought all those you'd end up with some amount of shite on your hands, and even if you were buying them for 50p a go, you'd still be struggling to break even. My advice is either get clued up or steer well clear...

And remember, it's only RARE classical records which are worth money and, surprise surprise... they're quite.... RARE!

Thats true enough, thats why I stick to the guide, this week I bought an HMV ASD 279. It has sold twice this month on Ebay for £40. I paid £1 for one, so yeah, its a bit like saying what library lables are collectable and buying them all. I never meant that EVERY record with these cat numbers are worth money, but a select few.

**sermad** · 26-06-2005, 12:37 PM

Don't classical records have to be near as mint even if it is rare? Surely with such delicate recordings...

**platerpus** · 26-06-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggy_Stardust_72

You need to go for labels, but forget searching by Conductors/ composers, search by Cat Numbers.

if you do that then you'll miss some of the rarest and most desirable/expensive pieces...
everyone knows all the early stereos...that's too easy...
if you're gonna really get into the classical thing you gotta know all the mono stuff too...you gotta know what the collectors want...all the sought after players and conducters...and really learning about all that takes several years...

**wayne** · 26-06-2005, 03:42 PM

Classical stuff is probably no different to any other genre (and I know next to nothing about any of them in collector's terms). My tastes wander over pretty much everything, though, including the odd classical LP, and I pick them up on the same basis as anything else: ie: does it look potentially interesting, and is it in resellable condition if I decide to pass it along? Obviously, if I like it myself, none of it matters, but I've sold or traded most of the things I've punted on using those criteria: even if it's just getting a couple of quid back for each LP, it's not to be sniffed at, and I've acquired some lovely early music/baroque/20th century stuff for myself I might've never come across otherwise by dipping in the odd toe (or half foot) now and then...

**wayne** · 26-06-2005, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by sermad

Don't classical records have to be near as mint even if it is rare? Surely with such delicate recordings...

I think so, but fortunately Classical collections worth the time flicking through are generally ludicrously well looked after...

Unlike reggae/funk/rock collections, which look like they've been owned by frisbee-loving farmyard creatures, usually...

**BoneyVotel** · 26-06-2005, 04:12 PM

Mister Platerpus is right, don't just go for stereo pressings, that is a good rule of thumb, but not the only thing.
Find out what violinists were under recorded, violin concertos are the most valuable records in my experience.
Get a feel for the record too.
You can tell when you pick it up if it's desirable! all in the nose....
Must be clean if not check for ticks & for how many rotations.
Grooved, Blue back, clock posistion of certain phrases, it's a mine field.
But one that can pay dividens occasionally.
Mister Divine is on the nail too, the reasons it's expensive it because it's rare. Don't expect to find them every week, they are as rare as the psych & acid folk we so desire.
boney

**Ziggy_Stardust_72** · 26-06-2005, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by platerpus

if you do that then you'll miss some of the rarest and most desirable/expensive pieces...
everyone knows all the early stereos...that's too easy...
if you're gonna really get into the classical thing you gotta know all the mono stuff too...you gotta know what the collectors want...all the sought after players and conducters...and really learning about all that takes several years...

Certain labels are completely undesirable(e.g. Classics For Pleasure) and I agree searching for early stereo is easy, but Ian Townsend said he didn't have a clue what classical records to go for so I was just pointing him in the right direction. Searching by players and conductors is the best way, but for novices like myself searching by the CAT number is easier than seacrhing through loads of LP's by players and conductors I have never heard of, as obviously as you say this would take years.

**platerpus** · 26-06-2005, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggy_Stardust_72

Certain labels are completely undesirable(e.g. Classics For Pleasure) and I agree searching for early stereo is easy, but Ian Townsend said he didn't have a clue what classical records to go for so I was just pointing him in the right direction. Searching by players and conductors is the best way, but for novices like myself searching by the CAT number is easier than seacrhing through loads of LP's by players and conductors I have never heard of, as obviously as you say this would take years.

very fair point - certain cat numbers are a good way to dip into the thing without getting sucked into the fine details...

**platerpus** · 26-06-2005, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by BoneyVotel

Find out what violinists were under recorded, violin concertos are the most valuable records in my experience.

ok man i was trying not to get too specific and keep those solo violin joints squirrel...that way they don't get hoovered up so quickly....

**BoneyVotel** · 27-06-2005, 08:33 AM

Yup! apologies given.
scrub that post. focus on pianists I say.

**peretti** · 27-06-2005, 03:00 PM

I've got a bit more serious about the classical thing recently and I'm in the process of selling a collection of about 1000 pieces. Yup, it's all about the cat numbers and certain series on certain labels. Dealers pretty much assume the vinyl will be M- condition and below that grade the prices fall dramatically.

The artists and/or conductors are obviously key but the recording quality of some of the early 70's stuff has in many cases never been bettered - a golden age of classical music production. Mono stuff often seems to be about rarity - first or only recordings of historic pieces, early recordings of classical superstars etc but the mono collector boys are a breed within a breed and a scary one at that.

Just like other genres, tastes have also changed and this has affected some collectable records. For instance, baroque music has changed hugely with the return to authentic instruments, / pitch / playing techniques etc and those 50s - 70's renditions seem so staid against newer interpretations that, pioneering as those records were, many collectors have lost interest in them.

Oh, and there's a healthy chazza digging culture among the classicos out there.

**Ian Townsend** · 27-06-2005, 08:58 PM

Jeez...sorry about the title above...it's a bit (ssshhhh) 80's House-y!

Really appreciate the info...checking thru it you've collectively given me a great start. Big thanx.

Popped to library today to order that book (thanx Ziggy and Lord T. for kick-starting thread) and emailed some older music teachers in my area......
....the ebay trawling as mentioned started a few weeks ago. Two points:

Finding the King Horror 45 was great and a surprise...but finding out afterwards it's possibly worth a few quid (allegedly!

) ..didn't hit the spot!!

LEARN, DO and SHARE
I guess what I'm aiming to do.......

(& share by PM too...with all above and any other regular digging VV'ers who are interested)

....is learn which are the classical equivalents of finding something in the league of a 'Spiral' or an 'Argo' folk LP or that Kathleen Emery 45(?)...you know...

THE BUZZ...(the stomach flip...the 'Yessss'....the 'whooah'...etc

And in truth ....it's for the buzz, the pleasure of the chase , that split-second when you've flicked, flicked , flicked and Whoooah!! sharp intake of breath...there suddenly appears something you know by sight but didn't expect to find.

I remember LDJB or Divine (?)ruminating a while ago about not having recovered yet from finding a copy of Hymns a Swinging 'in the wild'....irrelevant as to whether they already had it...it's the thrill of finding it 'at source'.

As said: A lot of classical is often clean, well-cared for and in the same boxes as the stuff we dig for anyway...so it's not something to make an extra trip for...just broader time management

!

So....gonna get on a classical tip trip.....then gonna compile some piccy's (between 50 and a 100 maybe) of the type of classical LP it's maybe possible to find etc along with a 'Holy Grail' Top 20....plus thumbnail / cat. info.

I visually remember every LP on the main VV site....how hard will it be to memorise and file way some new and different ones?

To keep this ....wait for it..
....Specific Manageable Achievable Relevant and Timebound....

yeeuuk.....
....I'll aim for something to share with regulars; if interested; in early September.

Cheers all....appreciate the start..

**Mr Muench** · 28-06-2005, 10:11 AM

Must admit i usualy avoid classical LPs as i know nothing about them and im not really in to classical music. However i do somtimes pick up ones with good sleeves, and some of the sleeves for classical records are really good... I also somtimes pick up LPs by Edward Muench (or Munch in German) as i dont often see records with my name on.

**Ian Townsend** · 28-06-2005, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Muench

Must admit i usualy avoid classical LPs as i know nothing about them and im not really in to classical music. However i do somtimes pick up ones with good sleeves, and some of the sleeves for classical records are really good... I also somtimes pick up LPs by Edward Muench (or Munch in German) as i dont often see records with my name on.

It's his paintings you really want to get.

Make sure they're OG though.

(If nothing flakes off it's a print).