Csi

[Nick Cope]

So anyone planning to tune in for the Quentin Tarrantino finale?

What's with this guy and the TV industry over there? Is he like this super-cool trouble-shooter? I've noticed the growing trend to bring in a ringer either halfway through, or at the end - ER had Ray Liotta do a episode all about him, which I saw and was easily the best episode of that sorry-ass show I'd seen, far better than the comic-book style QT one years back...

Aaanyhow, I'll be watching it. Even though the show is essentially shite, that it relies on made up technology to solve plotholes, despite being supposedly forensic science driven, and is incapable of ending a story properly, I like to watch it from time to time - fills an hour while you're waiting for something else, innit?

And therein lies the problem. JD Ballard wrote a piece about CSI in the Guardian the other weekend, it was fucking crap. I guess he's seen it maybe twice because he missed the point utterly - ending in some boring drivel about man's obsession with his own mortality as the reason behind the 'CSI phenomenon'. Bullshit. It's about the viewer having an hour to lay to waste, not themselves to waste.

CSI has done as much to push standards in US TV culture backwards as HBO has pushed standards forward (except for SATC). It's structure of not so neatly tied up plotlines at the end of each episode puts no obligation on the viewer at all to invest brain time, nor does it challenge their writers to produce something half decent. The only reason tonight's show might be better is because it will surely involve a key character, one of the CSI's, and the plot will run across two whole episodes - whoopedoo!

That other tedious franchise, Law & Order, does a similar thing and between that lot and all the CSI editions, pressure to conform to the 'hour to kill' style is spreading. The last 24 was shit because it felt that it needed to become 24 standalone hours in order to compete in the ratings.

Still, despite all that, I'll be watching it. Ballard never managed to pinpoint the reason why exactly CSI is so popular, but I'll take a guess: because people are lazy, stupid wankers and like flashy, sparkling things.

[sermad]

CSI is the cop show equivalent of porn. Its got flashy bits but ultimately it leaves you wanting more. Its pure eye candy.

NYPD however is the shit. Its the same every episode but atleast it has whole series arcs and is still pretty gritty.

[Belson]

JD Ballard wrote a piece about CSI in the Guardian the other weekend, it was fucking crap. I guess he's seen it maybe twice because he missed the point utterly - ending in some boring drivel about man's obsession with his own mortality as the reason behind the 'CSI phenomenon'. Bullshit. It's about the viewer having an hour to lay to waste, not themselves to waste.

One cup or two, mate?

[Si Cheeba]

I prefer Cagney and Lacey anyway....

[emperor tomato ketchup]

I've never watched CSI but might do so tonight as I can't stand a fifth night of drinking in a row and I like QT.

I've heard someone blame CSI for shifting the level of "reasonable doubt" amongst the minds of the US which means juries will let you off for the untidy details you inevitably get in real life cases. Thusjacko got off whereas he might not have years ago. But I dunno as I've never seen it.

[Palma Rubia]

Guess what happens in the Tarantino directed episode .... someone gets buried alive! Just like when he directed an episode of ER ... someone had his ear cut off.

[Nick Cope]

Damn, and there was I thinking Grissolm was gonna kill 88 dudes with his garden sprayer and UV torch...

[Sie Vulture]

...'fraid I too am a CSI novice... all of my TV time is currently spent watching the 2nd and 3rd series of The Soprano's.. excellent stuff...

[Little Jimmy Oddman]

I've never watched CSI but might do so tonight as I can't stand a fifth night of drinking in a row and I like QT.

I've heard someone blame CSI for shifting the level of "reasonable doubt" amongst the minds of the US which means juries will let you off for the untidy details you inevitably get in real life cases. Thusjacko got off whereas he might not have years ago. But I dunno as I've never seen it.

Where did you hear this Mark? Blooming fascinating idea, at least to the lawyer in me...

Only seen one or two episodes of CSI. It seems very guilty of that American sub-Mitchum acting style where you try and do nothing (but end up grimacing) to signal THOUGHT and EMOTIONS.

[Striker]

oh do shut up.


CSI fucking rules... i'll never get bored of watching that cotton bud go blue or seeing spunky deposits light up in the dark.

and as for HBO..........

when it's not convincing arses to act like overweight mafia wannabes after a few pints, it's pandering to humorless mungbean chomping failed intellectuals with clunky "Plot" twists & scenarios that would make M. Night Shayamalan blush.

CSI's good fun, I know that the same thing happens every week, but they do it so well, it's like scooby doo without the repeating backgrounds, if I had to choose it'd be CSI's cheeky wink over any number of HBO impassioned stares or arch sidelong glances.


now where's that coffee.

[Warren]

My colleague a work has been watching The Sopranos too much. Every time he puts on his suit jacket to go to a meeting, he keeps "shooting his cuffs"

There is though only one TV show that comes from across the pond that is worth watching & that is The West Wing.

[emperor tomato ketchup]

Where did you hear this Mark? Blooming fascinating idea, at least to the lawyer in me...

Only seen one or two episodes of CSI. It seems very guilty of that American sub-Mitchum acting style where you try and do nothing (but end up grimacing) to signal THOUGHT and EMOTIONS.

I heard it from "My Mate Trish", she's a mate of mine, called Trish.

She also runs an Oxfam Music and book store which possibly marks her out as Public Enemy No. 1 around here. Though her pricing approach is 40% of average on Gemm and then drop the price if it doesn't sell. Which seems sensible to me.

So are you a lawyer then or are you just saying there's a little bit of lawyer inside all of us?

[Nick Cope]

oh do shut up.


CSI fucking rules... i'll never get bored of watching that cotton bud go blue or seeing spunky deposits light up in the dark.

and as for HBO..........

when it's not convincing arses to act like overweight mafia wannabes after a few pints, it's pandering to humorless mungbean chomping failed intellectuals with clunky "Plot" twists & scenarios that would make M. Night Shayamalan blush.

CSI's good fun, I know that the same thing happens every week, but they do it so well, it's like scooby doo without the repeating backgrounds, if I had to choose it'd be CSI's cheeky wink over any number of HBO impassioned stares or arch sidelong glances.


now where's that coffee.

Are you trying to balance out the thread, or do you actually mean what you wrote? There's nothing puesdo-intellectual about The Sopranos - it's just good writing, and bloody funny too. In comparism, CSI is total shite. Well it's total shite compared to Blue Peter for that matter...

Nope, CSI and the like are absolute steps backwards. And that cheeky wink between the redhead and Grissolm is the character devlopment for the entire show.

Warren, I like the West Wing, but you gotta slap on the schmaltz factor 49 cream five minutes before the end. The scmaltz put me off the West Wing for years, then I managed to get over that hump - but after moving to a street with no cable (argh!) I'm now god knows how many seasons behind...

Anyhow, I don't eat mugbeans, I eat meat. I don't act like a Soprano after a few pints and I don't see anyone beating up women or going "eeeyyyy" when I'm out either. Save for a few shows like West Wing or The Shield, HBO is the best channel ever and Curb Your Enthusiasm is the funniest thing I've seen.

[babycart]

I've never watched CSI but might do so tonight as I can't stand a fifth night of drinking in a row and I like QT.

I've heard someone blame CSI for shifting the level of "reasonable doubt" amongst the minds of the US which means juries will let you off for the untidy details you inevitably get in real life cases. Thusjacko got off whereas he might not have years ago. But I dunno as I've never seen it.

yeah, but OJ also walked on the reasonable doubt criteria, well before CSI.
My missus watches this in Spanish, so all I see is the bullets crunching through brain tissue etc. Which seems to be the main selling point. i don't know whether they lifted that from '7even' or not, but I saw 'Saw' the other week and it just looked like an especially gruesome version of CSI.

Im more a Quincy fan myself.

[Zom-B]

On a more serious note the best show in the states at the mo is obviously the new series of family guy!

[Nick Cope]

Family Guy?

I don't get Family Guy. It's rubbish!

[Zom-B]

Family guy is great, its always funny & offensive, often surreal. Its better than the simpsons these days & i never thought id say that.
Smoke a doobie & watch it, it always has me in stitches.

[Nick Cope]

Really? I'll give it a go when I get the chance - but being stuck with no cable is a bummer... Still, moving stateside in a few months, so I'll catch up with it there, search out this thread from the archive and state that it's still rubbish, ha ha!

[Striker]

Are you trying to balance out the thread, or do you actually mean what you wrote?

Ha!

a little of both, CSI's fine popcorn TV with a solid sense of it's own absurdity. I actually enjoy it when they use technology that dosen't exist (especially the imaging stuff when they zoom in about a million times & magically un-pixellate it to reveal the muderer)

I also get constantly shouted at for calling out the sopranos as being macho cliche ridden rubbish..


plus somedays i wake up & fancy an argument about any old shit....

had one about peanut butter this morning!
particularly proud of that one.

[Hooded Claw]

had one about peanut butter this morning!
particularly proud of that one.

For or against? I'm a staunch advocate of peanut butter. Especially when it comes in chocolate cups.

[Viva Chiba]

Hmm, I'll settle for a double bill of The Professionals and the Sweeney on Men & Motors - courtesy of my Freeview box.

Bah, TV. . . mostly a load of shite. Better off reading a book, I say.

Did anyone see the Peter Watkins article by Alex Cox t'other day ? That chap is a bit of a legend and errr unsung hero of British Film.

[Striker]

For or against? I'm a staunch advocate of peanut butter. Especially when it comes in chocolate cups.

Smooth or Crunchy was the subject

reese's cups make me vomit like a cat with furballs, backwards walk & everything

[Hooded Claw]

Smooth or Crunchy was the subject

reese's cups make me vomit like a cat with furballs, backwards walk & everything

I fiercely disagree, but the mental image made me laugh so I forgive you.
(even though whenever I laugh it is blatently obvious to everyone else in the office that i'm not working)

[wayne]

Smoke a doobie & watch it, it always has me in stitches.

Smoke a doobie and watch ANYTHING and it'll have you in stitches.

Did anyone see the Peter Watkins article by Alex Cox t'other day ? That chap is a bit of a legend and errr unsung hero of British Film.

Agreed. Watkins is great, and so's Alex Cox. Repo Man is classic, and his last film 'Three Businessmen' got zero promotion, but turned up in a Newark charity on DVD and turned out to be a lovely, weird road movie about 2 businessmen looking for something to eat in Liverpool, getting lost, and ending up somewhere in Mexico or Columbia after passing through Japan and Rotterdam...

[Viva Chiba]

Hmm, Coxy might be a bit dodgy. . .Repo Man is a fuckin' classic. I'd like to see Sid & Nancy and Straight to Hell.

I think I scored 3 Businessmen and one of his other things from the street market for an entire quid each, might have to try watching them all then. I acquired Highway Patrolman too. . .not as great as has been suggested but fairly decent.

Been thinking about my long anticipated feature film script and I had a couple of interesting ideas today. If I ever write it, perhaps I shall have to send it to Mr Cox. I was also thinking about doing a documentary on Watkins (though someone has already done one). . I emailed him about this but he didn't reply. . .think he's kind of errrr given up really. I did have a bit of correspondence with him a couple of years back. . . managed to send him a copy of "The Gladiators" after I sent a letter to the company which owns the rights. He told me that he was asking Universal for the DVD rights to Privilege, but it looks like those negotiations have come to nought. Apparently he was supposed to make an appearance at a Toronto retrospective of his stuff, and someone made a slightly critical comment about his work. . .apparently he felt dissed, pulled out of the event and announced his "retirement."

Seems to be Ken Loach who is the first and only die hard lefty filmmaker known to most. . . sad to say.

For my money The War Game is one of the best films to come out of this lousy country, Punishment Park is up there, and "The Gladiators" and "Privilege" are - if not as coherent - more interesting works than most other "successful" films in the field. You seen Privilege or the Gladiators Wayne ?? I also have the "La Commune" DVD, not managed to watch it all (!!). Found that hard to get into. .. Watkins does a great introduction to it though. . .

[Nick Cope]

Geez, I've never heard of 3 Businessmen.

And I thought I knew everything, damn!

[wayne]

Not seen Gladiators or Privilege, just the 3 that've had reasonable distrubution (relative to his others, anyway), which is War Game, Punishment Park and Cullodden. All brilliant.

If Cox has given up, I'd be sorry to hear it. I think we need more people who are prepared to go out and wing bizarre, massively flawed movies that aren't like anyone else's, and he's one of the few we've got who does that.

None of his films is perfect, but even his failures (like Walker) are interesting to watch, and fall on their arses trying to do something. Which is unlike most British films, which fall on their arses trying to do nothing of any interest whatsoever...

Uhm, anyway. Three Businessmen is super low-budget, totally watchable, and just a really nice low key left field road movie. It gets the urban settings really well, too, so in 30 years time it'll be a great record of what cities are like now even if you don't like the non-story...

Cox is definitely an under valued director in my book...

[ladyboygrimsby]

Not seen Gladiators or Privilege, just the 3 that've had reasonable distrubution (relative to his others, anyway), which is War Game, Punishment Park and Cullodden. All brilliant.

If Cox has given up, I'd be sorry to hear it. I think we need more people who are prepared to go out and wing bizarre, massively flawed movies that aren't like anyone else's, and he's one of the few we've got who does that.

None of his films is perfect, but even his failures (like Walker) are interesting to watch, and fall on their arses trying to do something. Which is unlike most British films, which fall on their arses trying to do nothing of any interest whatsoever...

Uhm, anyway. Three Businessmen is super low-budget, totally watchable, and just a really nice low key left field road movie. It gets the urban settings really well, too, so in 30 years time it'll be a great record of what cities are like now even if you don't like the non-story...

Cox is definitely an under valued director in my book...

Almost everything he's ever done has been unwatchable rubbish. Repo Man was okay, Sid & Nancy passable, the rest utter shite.

Christopher Nolan pisses all over him (although the Batman's supposed to be garbage).

[Viva Chiba]

Err sorry for any confusion.

It wasn't Alex Cox who had (apparently) retired, it was Mr Peter Watkins. . .

The rest of Watkins' ouevre (if I spelt that correctly) is well worth seeking out. I also saw Edvard Munch at the NFT. . . not as good as some of the others, but some interesting flashbacks going on in the editing department.

[wayne]

Almost everything he's ever done has been unwatchable rubbish. Repo Man was okay, Sid & Nancy passable, the rest utter shite.

Christopher Nolan pisses all over him (although the Batman's supposed to be garbage).

That's kind of the concensus view I was talking about...but I'd have to say I'd rather watch Cox trying to do Fellini/Bunuel and falling a fair way short than any number of wannabe Guy Ritchies...and I guess you could say the same about Nolan (ie: Memento OK, Insomnia passable, Batman shite...if indeed it is...) so Cox isn't exactly alone, and kicking him while he's already down seems less iconoclastic than pointless. And even if you don't like his films (not one of which is any less watchable or more pretentious than the much-feted likes of Head, El Topo or Vanishing Point) you've got to give him those years on Moviedrome introducing much of that stuff to the rest of us...

It wasn't Alex Cox who had (apparently) retired, it was Mr Peter Watkins. . .

Ah, misunderstood. Same feeling of it's a shame applies, multiplied, but reduced by the fact that I'd assumed Watkins had already pretty much bowed out of the game. The War Game scared the bejesus out of me back in 1982 when I first saw it...