Breaks albums?

[Brainbomb]

Not part of any DJ culture - just sometimes "spinning a few wax" at some local club or pub when someone asks me, I have a question.

Why are DJs searching for and paying loads of money for LPs that are more or less crappy just because some famous hip-hopper or DJ sampled a break off it? Of course not saying all LPs which have been sampled are crap, but some are - apart from one track or one break - and they still fetch quite high prices.

I'm not accusing here - just curious.... are they planning to use the break while DJing? For their own productions? Just collecting what their idols use?

[jakartajive]

My sentiments exactly.
As I've bored on about elsewhere today, I fear!!!

[beddoes]

I'm also curious about this. If I were a dj I think I'd want to find my own breaks, not use ones already discovered by others. Or is this not how it works?

[Si Cheeba]

...sometimes the whole tunes are great tracks and worth having - I must admit to many times hearing the sample and then wanting to get the original source - but Im generally in agreement about this kind of "breaks" collector


I can see the point of shelling out for (what may be) "unknown/unused" breaks and loops - but to avidly collect breaks (when they are just a break and nothing else) that have been already been used - does confuse me too.

[vinylism]

it can sometimes be nice to hear the original break/sample source to see what the artist did with it creatively, if anything. plus it's fun to amaze your friends with boundless knowledge of sampled records! i know my mates love it when i start talking of breaks and samples...

from a dj / mixtape perspective, some people like to mix the original source with the later track, but that only really works if the original break is a good track in it's own right. still, i don't really understand why people pay big $$$ for a single (already used) drumbreak or such like

[kikat]

I can understand why some like to get hold of the records which have been sampled but i do not understand why they spend big money on them. I was chuffed when i found the coldcut vocal sample "This is a journey" in a charity shop years back mainly because i did'nt know it was on there, same for many other records i've found along the way but never parted with big cash.

An example of this is THE HIT WORLD OF KLAUS WUNDERLICH which has just gone for a tenner on EBAY because the name Edan was mentioned in the listing. Usually you can't give them away.

I suppose it's just another link in the record collecting chain. Plus it keeps the vinyl alive.

[leebrady]

...sometimes the whole tunes are great tracks and worth having - I must admit to many times hearing the sample and then wanting to get the original source - but Im generally in agreement about this kind of "breaks" collect

Totally agree when I first started to venture out from just buyin hip hop and new stuff I bought shit that was sampled on my hip hop tunes. it was a good way to get some good tunes and it finally led to what i'm into now and findin stuff that's not been sampled yet.

However i'd never buy something just cos it was sampled it had to be a good tune.

These days I will buy stuff with 10 good seconds on there but only to sample myself or to use as an intro to another song when i'm DJing buyin stuff for a break that's been hit is just daft

[kikat]

The 45 king's 900 number was an awesome record for me when i was a kid but when i heard Martha Whitneys Unwind Yourself all i could think was "he just looped the intro, thats all he did, looped the intro". Not sure what my point is but i did feel a bit cheated.

[alanmck]

The 45 king's 900 number was an awesome record for me when i was a kid but when i heard Martha Whitneys Unwind Yourself all i could think was "he just looped the intro, thats all he did, looped the intro". Not sure what my point is but i did feel a bit cheated.

there is that. then again, when I heard the Tom Scott track "Today" that was used for "T.R.O.Y", i was gobsmacked that such a tiny snippet part way through a fairly hippyish jazz album could have been the basis for it. anybody know what the current $$ on "honeysuckle breeze" is, btw?

[jakartajive]

The 45 king's 900 number was an awesome record for me when i was a kid but when i heard Martha Whitneys Unwind Yourself all i could think was "he just looped the intro, thats all he did, looped the intro". Not sure what my point is but i did feel a bit cheated.

Think you've connected hammer and nail-head there. For every "Wow! They worked wonders with THAT little snippet" moment folks who care 'bout these things must get, there must be plenty more who stare in dumb astoundment and wonder how the hell you can get away with sampling such swathes of sound!!!

Best sample ever, btw? Pharoah Sanders' "creative quotation" / reworking / expansion / homage of Coltrane in "The Creator Has A Master Plan".

[beddoes]

I remember reading somewhere that the original (not the 1990 remake) soundtrack to Romero's Night of the Living Dead was stitched together from a wide variety of sources, and that horror aficionados around the world avidly collect the source vinyl. But maybe I dreamed this.

[emperor tomato ketchup]

there is that. then again, when I heard the Tom Scott track "Today" that was used for "T.R.O.Y", i was gobsmacked that such a tiny snippet part way through a fairly hippyish jazz album could have been the basis for it. anybody know what the current $$ on "honeysuckle breeze" is, btw?

No, and since I am assuming my 10 quid non-gatefold copy is a re-ish of some form thats not much help is it?

Hair Jazz and Paint Your Wagon seemed to oscillate around $25-35 in NYC last year such that $20 seemed a good price. Didn't see Honeysuckle Breeze or Rural Still Life at all though.

[Viva Chiba]

There certainly seem to be a lot of people here who are avid collectors of "Dawn of the Dead" library OST material. .. there was an OST for "Night of The Living Dead" released on Varese Sarabande in the late 70's/early 80's. . .seen it a few times, but never cheap enough to warrant acquisition. As I remember I think it is a bit of a hotch-potch of various source material.

I spent the mid/late 90's listening to the dreaded trip-hop and your coffee table grooves from the likes of Mo Wax, Ninja Tune, Pussyfoot etc. When I broadened my tastes and started to listen to mainstream soul/funk I was wowed not so much by the artistry of the sampling, but by its blatant obviousness. . . listening to the original tracks was a bit of a shock. It became rather obvious that about 99% of this modern dance "music" was lifted from classic 70's funk records in a rather unsubtle fashion. Artists such as the Deadly Avenger et al have their formulaic, woefully pillaged shit hyped to the heavens and the kids don't know any different because, unless you're a DJ, producer or digger then you're unlikely to be exposed to the sources of these great loops. It's still enjoyable and very funky music, but chopping a tasty loop out of a track seems to remove some of the groove. . .

I suppose compilations like that series of "sampled" CD's are quite handy for turning people on to new sounds and revealing how reliant on vinyl archaeology "producers" are. How many new sounds do these chaps actually "produce" ?? Get 'em a guitar and send 'em to rock school boot camp. Shave their heads and make them play the drums 18 hours a day so they can make their own sick ill funk style drama loops. . .

When someone is searching for a record "because of a break" that seems pitifully fetishistic to me: stripping an entire LP down to a few seconds of open drums. A woefully ignorant emphasis. . but like someone said. . if they perhaps listened to the music AFTER the opening few bars they might actually enjoy it and learn to appreciate something different!

However if anyone does want to buy some sickillloppsfuzzpsychebreaks then I have a pile of great records to sell

[emperor tomato ketchup]

There's an argument that this is no different to what the Stones, Zep and Beatles did back in the day.

Not convicned it holds up to a LOT of scrutiny that one but there's an element of truth. Certainly there's always been loads of lazy bandwagon hoppers taking the easy route.

[sport casual]

I'm also curious about this. If I were a dj I think I'd want to find my own breaks, not use ones already discovered by others. Or is this not how it works?

Are you taking the piss?? This makes perfect sense, but in my experience there are a lot of "DJs" who collect mega rare breaks and then when they play out in da club, spin absolute wank. Well not absolute wank, just pretty bog standard classic nightclub music.

Yes, I like to find my own breaks. It's cheeeeep!

[beddoes]

Aren't dj's who use somebody else's breaks more or less just like cover bands?

[kikat]

Aren't dj's who use somebody else's breaks more or less just like cover bands?

A cover of a cover of a cover.

My head hurts.

[Si Cheeba]

A cover of a cover of a cover.

= the new Lefties Soul Connection 45


I - - this a lot !

[Rich Hero]

= the new Lefties Soul Connection 45


I - - this a lot !

But isn't it a cover of a cover of a cover of a cover?

Bach's 'Toccata And Fugue In D Minor' -> Iron Butterfly 'Inna Gadda Da Vida' -> Giorgio 'Tears' -> DJ Shadow 'Organ Donor (Extended Overhaul)' -> Lefties...

Whatever, it's great.

[maWhie]

I think if breaks are used as they were originaly intended, being played back to back, they are absolutly blinding I still love listening to bambaataa's death mix even though his cutting skills are relatively primitive.
Dont forget looping breaks was originally a live performance, I think alot of people have been saturated in sampled based music,that its now not so exiting, I can imagine back in the late 70's hearing a break being looped would have been amazing, especially in such a primitive manner with two turntables

[LDJB]

I think if breaks are used as they were originaly intended, being played back to back, they are absolutly blinding

sorry if this seems pedantic but the breaks were originally intended to be used as part of the original track - not to be cut up in the Bronx by Red Alert.

Know what you mean about the 2 turntable skills though

[maWhie]

sorry if this seems pedantic but the breaks were originally intended to be used as part of the original track - not to be cut up in the Bronx by Red Alert.

Know what you mean about the 2 turntable skills though

true, but this is where the idea of a break on a record first came about

[Nick Cope]

Why are DJs searching for and paying loads of money for LPs that are more or less crappy just because some famous hip-hopper or DJ sampled a break off it?

I wouldn't call them DJs, just kids. Someone likes to show off their 'in-joke' etc, unless of course the track is good in it's own right, but if some kiddie's playing the source from Mass Appeal, then well...

Serioulsy, it's just kids. They'll grow out of it. After all, it's not a bad route to dicovering what you're really into.

[platerpus]

I wouldn't call them DJs, just kids. Someone likes to show off their 'in-joke' etc, unless of course the track is good in it's own right, but if some kiddie's playing the source from Mass Appeal, then well...

Serioulsy, it's just kids. They'll grow out of it. After all, it's not a bad route to dicovering what you're really into.

a little strong isn't it Nick?!!
granted there are many kids hunting for the 'breaks' but there are a good deal of fully grown adults doing the same thing...and though it no longer floats my boat i'm not sure it's entirely dissmissable as 'just kids messing about'.isn't it a large (and arguably valid) part of the whole 'hiphop culture'.
if you're a 'bboy' dj then having an arsenal of breaks both classic and 'unknown' is surely pretty much essential?
actually i'd say the whole breaks/hiphop thing has opened the music up to generations that would otherwise not be at all interested in Power Of Zeus etc etc etc.surely that has to be a really good thing?
keep it real etc...

[benjamin hatton]

.isn't it a large (and arguably valid) part of the whole 'hiphop culture'.

...finding new unused breaks is, yeah...i think what Nick is referring to is the kids that buy any old shite just because DJ Premier or whoever sampled it, which is pretty daft behaviour at times...

[Rich Hero]

...buy any old shite just because DJ Premier or whoever sampled it, which is pretty daft behaviour at times...

[platerpus]

...finding new unused breaks is, yeah...i think what Nick is referring to is the kids that buy any old shite just because DJ Premier or whoever sampled it, which is pretty daft behaviour at times...

with ya...fair point.

[Lord Thames]

The 45 king's 900 number was an awesome record for me when i was a kid but when i heard Martha Whitneys Unwind Yourself all i could think was "he just looped the intro, thats all he did, looped the intro". Not sure what my point is but i did feel a bit cheated.

Bentley Rhythm Ace's 'Bentley's Gonna Sort You Out' v Werner Muller's 'Bodybuilding'. After hearing the Muller track for the first time, I thought 'How the feck did BRA get away with it?!' Still, they ended up as support act to Voice of the Beehive on a 90s nostalgia tour, so I suppose karma came into play eventually.......

[Nick Cope]

i think what Nick is referring to is the kids that buy any old shite just because DJ Premier or whoever sampled it, which is pretty daft behaviour at times...

That's what I was trying to say, yes. It's kind of a scene I guess and when you're young, you think you're hot shit and want to prove it to everyone. Nothing wrong with that, like I said: just kids. It's for the soul strutters!

And if they're not kids and still collecting albums purely for used samples, then maybe they're just collectors. Collectors aren't much fun.

[Thelonious MOke]

I can understand why some like to get hold of the records which have been sampled but i do not understand why they spend big money on them. I was chuffed when i found the coldcut vocal sample "This is a journey" in a charity shop years back mainly because i did'nt know it was on there, same for many other records i've found along the way but never parted with big cash.

An example of this is THE HIT WORLD OF KLAUS WUNDERLICH which has just gone for a tenner on EBAY because the name Edan was mentioned in the listing. Usually you can't give them away.

I suppose it's just another link in the record collecting chain. Plus it keeps the vinyl alive.

In the case of KLAUS WUNDERLICH, you may find them in charity shops over here easily enough but, to someone like Edan, or some causual american break digger, thats a rare break, cause they were never sold over there.

Personally, part of what got me into digging, was looking for original samples. Specifically those of dela soul. Luckily these were mainly quality records anyway.
As for the shite/common records that fetch high prices just cause 'shadow used it' or whoever. I think it no different than people dreesing like their faourite pop star. Its just another form of idolisation.
What pisses me off more, are really good records, that I want, tripling in price cause 'shadow used it'.

Anyway. Isn't this whole conversation a little redundant. I thought the market for breaks had pretty much dropped out. Now everyone's making keyboard beats. An US hip hop is now the 'new pop'.