ebay sellers, what do you think??

**taiconderoga** · 09-05-2006, 10:29 AM

I sold a rare $200 pokora album. I've just received a message from the buyer saying the record has a skip on one track, he tells how he has played it on two different turntables, changed the weight, etc but it still skips and he wants to send back the record to check out and a refund. I'm 100% sure it doesn't skip, I've played it many times without any problem. I've already left positive feedback for him, same day I received the payment.

So, what would you do?? If I don't take back the record and don't make a refund, he could left me a negative. In the end , I've told him to send back the record and I'll make a refund minus postage.

**Brainbomb** · 09-05-2006, 10:32 AM

With the oversuspiciousness here lately... what if - he already had a skipping copy, bought yours and refunds his old one??

Maybe I shouldn't feed the eBay/Paypal frenzy going on here lately...

**benjamin hatton** · 09-05-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by taiconderoga

In the end , I've told him to send back the record and I'll make a refund minus postage.

yeah, i'd go for this, presumably it's an lp you would have no problem selling again?

**jam** · 09-05-2006, 10:36 AM

just dont refund him until you have the LP & are satisfied its the one you sent him.

**taiconderoga** · 09-05-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Brainbomb

With the oversuspiciousness here lately... what if - he already had a skipping copy, bought yours and refunds his old one??

Maybe I shouldn't feed the eBay/Paypal frenzy going on here lately...

that's one of the things that came to my mind at first. Or maybe he doesn't like the record after hearing it.

**taiconderoga** · 09-05-2006, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by benjamin hatton

yeah, i'd go for this, presumably it's an lp you would have no problem selling again?

yeah, sure, it's one of the currently sought after pokoras. anyway I'm very pissed off, it's the first time a thing like this happens to me. I've should not leave feedback so quick.

**john stapleton** · 09-05-2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by taiconderoga

yeah, sure, it's one of the currently sought after pokoras. anyway I'm very pissed off, it's the first time a thing like this happens to me. I've should not leave feedback so quick.

If I've sold an item, I always wait to receive feedback from the buyer before leaving mine...

**benjamin hatton** · 09-05-2006, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by john stapleton

If I've sold an item, I always wait to receive feedback from the buyer before leaving mine...

yeah, me too, best to make sure they're happy with the item first....

**Imperial_Mao** · 09-05-2006, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by john stapleton

If I've sold an item, I always wait to receive feedback from the buyer before leaving mine...

I'm of the opinion that sellers should leave feedback as soon as they recieve payment as the buyer has completed his end of the deal at this point.

**Rich Hero** · 09-05-2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by john stapleton

If I've sold an item, I always wait to receive feedback from the buyer before leaving mine...

That's actually a real pet hate of mine on eBay. As a buyer, my part of the contract is completed once I've paid. Therefore the seller can leave and should leave feedback once they've received their money. Whereas what I'm paying for - the seller's side of the contract - isn't completed until I receive the goods, as described. So sellers don't need to receive feedback before posting their own for the buyer, and those who say they'll leave feedback once I've left them positive feedback really get my goat. Interesting to see the two sides - the feedback system as a way of accurately assessing an eBayer's trustworthiness is obviously flawed (not that that's news to anyone).

**Imperial_Mao** · 09-05-2006, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Rich Hero

That's actually a real pet hate of mine on eBay. As a buyer, my part of the contract is completed once I've paid. Therefore the seller can leave and should leave feedback once they've received their money. Whereas what I'm paying for - the seller's side of the contract - isn't completed until I receive the goods, as described. So sellers don't need to receive feedback before posting their own for the buyer, and those who say they'll leave feedback once I've left them positive feedback really get my goat. Interesting to see the two sides - the feedback system as a way of accurately assessing an eBayer's trustworthiness is obviously flawed (not that that's news to anyone).

Yes I agree, Ebay should implement a system where the seller has to leave feedback within 48 hours of recieving payment or they lose the option too.
Especially as seeing that many sellers insist on payment within a certain time period and then sometimes wait up to a week or more before posting items...

**Little Jimmy Oddman** · 09-05-2006, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Brainbomb

With the oversuspiciousness here lately... what if - he already had a skipping copy, bought yours and refunds his old one??

...or scratched the one you sent?

**Little Jimmy Oddman** · 09-05-2006, 11:26 AM

As for feedback, it's true that the buyers have completed the contract when they've paid (which is when I leave feedback as well, for ease more than anything) but that's not all your leaving feedback on. It's on the whole process - if a buyer does something genuinely fraudulent after they've paid, surely the feedback should reflect this?

**eric-adams** · 09-05-2006, 11:26 AM

what if the buyer after completing payment then turns into an ass and demands refunds or sends records back for no reason or claims not to have recieved it. i dont leve feedback until i know they have the record and are pleased with it. if they are not pleased with it i refund.
you are leaving feedback for the buyer for the whole deal not just the payment.
ive left feedback for a bloke who bought 7 record i left excellent feedback after he payed, i posted them out. he got them and claimed one was broke, then the most expensive one was broke, wouldnt post them back, wouldnt take a photo of the damage, claimed they were all packaged wrong and i got 7 bad feedbacks for one broken record.
now i left him excellent feedback as he payed quickly but over the whole thing the guy was an asshole and should have recieved feedback warning others about the same.
his feedback was 100% but what he had left me and loads of other record dealers was awfull. so he must do the same to a lot of people

**Imperial_Mao** · 09-05-2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy Oddman

As for feedback, it's true that the buyers have completed the contract when they've paid (which is when I leave feedback as well, for ease more than anything) but that's not all your leaving feedback on. It's on the whole process - if a buyer does something genuinely fraudulent after they've paid, surely the feedback should reflect this?

Agreed, but this should be an option to apply for only after feedback has been left and should only be avaiable with proof of wrong doing. I think a lot of sellers hold off on leaving feedback as weapon to use against unhappy buyers, which is not what is was designed for.

**mr sayers** · 09-05-2006, 11:37 AM

word. agree 100%. with you on this one i hate it too

Originally Posted by Rich Hero

That's actually a real pet hate of mine on eBay. As a buyer, my part of the contract is completed once I've paid. Therefore the seller can leave and should leave feedback once they've received their money. Whereas what I'm paying for - the seller's side of the contract - isn't completed until I receive the goods, as described. So sellers don't need to receive feedback before posting their own for the buyer, and those who say they'll leave feedback once I've left them positive feedback really get my goat. Interesting to see the two sides - the feedback system as a way of accurately assessing an eBayer's trustworthiness is obviously flawed (not that that's news to anyone).

**mr sayers** · 09-05-2006, 11:38 AM

word...can't front on that either

Originally Posted by Imperial_Mao

Agreed, but this should be an option to apply for only after feedback has been left and should only be avaiable with proof of wrong doing. I think a lot of sellers hold off on leaving feedback as weapon to use against unhappy buyers, which is not what is was designed for.

**Joe M'geek** · 09-05-2006, 11:59 AM

My one neg on ebay is from a buyer that felt so strongly I should have left him positive feedback for paying that he negged me, even though he was totally happy with the item.

The reason I didn't leave him feedback was cos in all his communications he came across like a demanding psycho- wanted me to send the record before the cheque had cleared, wanted feedback straight away, USED LOTS OF CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!

Nice double standard- so despite both of us performing the important parts of the transaction perfectly, we both ended up with negs because I refused to be bullied into giving him his flipping gold star.

My opinion is- if I'm buying, I'd like feedback to be left for me straight away, and if I'm selling I'd like to hold on to make sure the buyer doesn't try and quibble some money back on threat of negging. Fair, innit!

**john stapleton** · 09-05-2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rich Hero

That's actually a real pet hate of mine on eBay. As a buyer, my part of the contract is completed once I've paid. Therefore the seller can leave and should leave feedback once they've received their money. Whereas what I'm paying for - the seller's side of the contract - isn't completed until I receive the goods, as described. So sellers don't need to receive feedback before posting their own for the buyer, and those who say they'll leave feedback once I've left them positive feedback really get my goat.

we'll have to agree to disagree on this one then!

**beddoes** · 09-05-2006, 12:11 PM

I don't care if a seller leaves me feedback. Some will, some won't -as long as some do, and it's good, why get your panties in a bunch?

But as a sometime seller myself I wonder about all you folks who demand instant feedback simply for paying. How many threads need to be started about fraudulent chargebacks and the like before it's crystal clear that ebay is throbbing with thieves and charlatans?

**wayne** · 09-05-2006, 12:28 PM

To be honest, I've got a 99.9% rating, and the only neg was from a non-payer who left it after I had a strike issued against him to get my fees back from ebay. I always leave feedback on receipt of payment, and any arsehole who doesn't want to deal with any problems via email (ie: if not happy with item, contact me & we'll arrange a partial or full refund on return of item) can leave a neg for all I care, or all the difference it makes. So I end up with a 99.7% rating instead? Big deal...

Note that you can't change feedback, but can add a note to what you've already left: if I were f***ed about after leaving positive, I'd do so, though never really have been. Wouldn't affect their total score, but would be there for others to find long enough for it to put the point over I guess...

Also, there's the possibility that grit or something in the package might damage an LP in transit. This happened to me once - posted mint LP, buyer emailed me to say it was scratched, returned it, and there were two small bunches of scratches in the vinyl. Obviously something got inside inner sleeve while packing, jiggled around in mail, and ruined the LP. Gave him a full refund and all was well...just rotten luck (and a message to take more care when packing in future!).

**medlar** · 09-05-2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by beddoes

How many threads need to be started about fraudulent chargebacks and the like before it's crystal clear that ebay is throbbing with thieves and charlatans?

Amen, beddoes, spot on.
Record described as excellent but scratched? Returned and then claimed that the sleeve wasn't in the same condition when sent out?
F@*k Off! Theiving b*****d.

Bollocks to ebay.
There, I feel better now

**beddoes** · 09-05-2006, 12:42 PM

I think it's important to note that Ebay is not a natural selling environment. If you buy a record from Dusty Groove and then claim that it was broken in the mail, they're going to require proof before they refund your money. An Ebay seller can't make this demand, as has been discussed many times on this board.

I can easily understand being anti-big-business. I can't understand being anti-small-business. Sentiments like Imperial Mao's seem to spring from some deep-seated belief that buying is a noble exercise while selling is inherently suspect.

This is not to say that sellers need to be given a pass --there are PLENTY of crap sellers, too.

But the world is not the consumer's oyster. I'm all for consumer's rights -I'm a leftist- but I'm not all for shopper's rights, if you see what I mean. It's not my job as a seller to provide you with a wonderful dreamlike shopping experience, as if you were shopping in a Spielberg film. Professionalism doesn't mean catering to a consumer's every whim, despite what Paris Hilton thinks.

**platerpus** · 09-05-2006, 12:55 PM

bloddy hell.......more of the same old subject.
feedback sysyem isn't perfect - i think we've established this fact now no?
so what though? get over it.
some sellers are too busy to leave feedback after each individual transaction.
some buyers are genuine buyers who want to return the record because they're not happy with it.they're fully entitled to do so and if you're selling records on ebay (especially expensive ones) then you should realise this.why is ebay any different ot any other retail outlet? consumer rights.
the biggest problem with ebay isn't the so called 'thieves' buying records and demanding refunds.....it's the large number of so called 'record sellers' who have no idea what they're doing.this is what creates opportunities for 'thieves' in the first place.
if you're not going to do it properly then just don't bother to do it at all.go and do something else.

**Joe M'geek** · 09-05-2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Imperial_Mao

Especially as seeing that many sellers insist on payment within a certain time period and then sometimes wait up to a week or more before posting items...

I don't give a shit when I receive payment, but I just can't be arsed to get it together to post stuff until about ten days after the auction finishes...I warn people about this in my listings, but you still get the odd mofo who whinges.

**platerpus** · 09-05-2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Joe M'geek

I don't give a shit when I receive payment, but I just can't be arsed to get it together to post stuff until about ten days after the auction finishes...I warn people about this in my listings, but you still get the odd mofo who whinges.

that's a good service then.doesn't install much confidence mate.

**SARGE** · 09-05-2006, 01:15 PM

ebay ebay ebay ebay.

because i live in a town called belfast i have no record shops or dealers or street lighting and i rely heavily on on-line diggin'. yeah sure ebay sucks satans cock and does indeed have black worm paypal jism rollin' off its item numbers, but its there and people use it. i think it would be a good idea to have an on-line bit where we could name and shame and share info about such dodgy dealings.....forewarned and all that.

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**ginghamkitchen** · 09-05-2006, 01:25 PM

What's an 'e-bay'?

**Joe M'geek** · 09-05-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by platerpus

that's a good service then.doesn't install much confidence mate.

Don't buy records from me, then- end of story. I'm honest about it, therefore there is no problem from anyone bar the illiterate. I've got 99.9% feedback (one neg detailed earlier), and luckily enough almost everyone in the ebay community I've dealt with is able to understand that I, unlike some record dealers, have a life

Originally Posted by platerpus

.....it's the large number of so called 'record sellers' who have no idea what they're doing.this is what creates opportunities for 'thieves' in the first place.
if you're not going to do it properly then just don't bother to do it at all.go and do something else.

PS- why is someone who swaps money for a record a 'so called record seller'. At the end of the day, grading a record and selling it for money isn't rocket science, and I, and many other people who sell records on the 'bay who wouldn't meet your criteria do a darned sight better job at it than tonnes of so called 'professional' sellers. I've had many more skimmed and overpriced, overgraded records from 'professional record dealers' at record fairs than off the bay!

**Mang** · 09-05-2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by SARGE

ebay ebay ebay ebay.

because i live in a town called belfast i have no record shops or dealers or street lighting and i rely heavily on on-line diggin'. yeah sure ebay sucks satans cock and does indeed have black worm paypal jism rollin' off its item numbers, but its there and people use it. i think it would be a good idea to have an on-line bit where we could name and shame and share info about such dodgy dealings.....forewarned and all that.

I absolutely agree - a name and shame thread is a great idea. I'm sick of having to leave positive feedback for substandard gear when the vendor has held off leaving feedback for the buyer - even if immediate payment has been made with Paypal/Bidpay/whatever.