Whiplash

[treeboy]

Went to see it on Sunday evening. Really enjoyed it. Final scene is tremendous. Good tunes throughout. My only criticism is that its a bit blokey, lots of machismo, but I suppose that's the façade of the lead character, so that would steer the film in that direction. Fantastic insults and general put downs. Just one request, it could end up in the pet peeves..."Not quite my tempo", leave it on the screen.
Ginger Baker wouldn't have stood for that shit!

[jakartajive]

I thought people played music because they enjoyed it.
Apparently not, if this film is anything to go by.
The pain. The struggle. The misery.
Love a duck.

[treeboy]

The blood too! Think I'll stick to whistling

[Tsundoku]

I enjoyed it when I watched it - the twists and turns of the plot etc. I had no idea what would happen and I was surprised at the end. However, thinking about it afterwards, I have major, major reservations about it, and the message expressed therein. The main character is acting from the position that SUCCESS IS ALL THAT MATTERS and obsessive striving and self-mortification is the way to get there. We have too much of that in our culture already. The film-maker would argue he's sending it up a bit, or showing obsession as damaging or something but I dunno - it's the "great man"/ heroic genius/psychopath idea of artistic success all over again. It's so prevelant in our culture that to show it is to kinda endorse it. Patrick Bateman as a jazz drummer. I really hate that cunty last shot where their eyes meet and it's all "Yes, it's all been worth it - mine cruelty has birthed genius". That's exactly what Gordon Ramsey says and everyone knows he's a total cunt.

It seems to have very little to do with jazz either. Minimal mention of the collaborative nature of jazz playing and improvisation, or pleasure as Hugh says. And it seemed very convenient to forget that Charlie Parker was (whisper) black and that jazz may have once been a vehicle for black self-expression and struggle. So I dunno. On an unthinking level, I enjoyed it but when I do think about it, I start thinking please just fuck off and die.

I enjoyed reading this - an attack on the film from an actual drummer.

[jakartajive]

Charlie Parker was black?!!!!!!

[amidar]

I've watched a few clips of it and what stands out for me is that in a film about jazz drumming the drumming sounds average at best. I'm pretty sure there are hard taskmasters in music who demand and strive for the best but constant beasting wouldn't do anyone any favours as music isn't the army or line cooking. To play complicated and tight you need to be loose and clear-headed. Sure its a good yarn though, heard one reviewer call it 'an officer and a gentleman with drums'.

[Tsundoku]

Charlie Parker was black?!!!!!!

I'm probably being a bit unfair 'cos it's not in any sense a film about jazz, but that I just found it weird. Two white blokes discussing him and no mention of colour.

I heard one reviewer call it 'an officer and a gentleman with drums'.

More like a bad day on the Kitchen Nightmares set with drums.

[ginghamkitchen]

There's nothing more boring than watching people working hard to achieve stuff. Roger Moore foiled super villains by merely flexing an eyebrow. He didn't even change out of his safari suit. All this huffing and puffing and sweating and punching the air is very American, if you ask me. Hollywood movies used to be an escape from real life, now real life is judged by how Hollywood it is. I haven't seen the film, but the trailer annoyed me.

[babycart]

Are there any bongos, congas or timbales in it?

[Boi Bach o Bethel]

Are there any bongos, congas or timbales in it?

NOT EVEN A VIBRAPHONE MATE

[Headless mermaid]

I haven't seen it, but something about the 'tough love' ass-kicking teacher/judge/father figure annoys me. I don't like X-Factor or the other "talent" shows where people go to get yelled at by strangers with authority either. I think it's a sign of something questionable in our time.

A Danish musician pointed out that the music in the film isn't very "jazzy" and improvisation and imperfections had no place in it. Makes sense.

[amidar]

Birdman has better drumming.

Someone told me Zappa's band in the eighties had to know a hundred of his songs and be able to play them note perfect when called upon. I don't think he'd be shouting and bawling if you weren't up to task I'd expect you would just be out the door. That said you do read stories about him making Steve Vai cry.

Hope we don't get a generation of school bandleaders who think this film is a blueprint on how to coach kids.

[treeboy]

I don't think the film set itself up to be the be all and end all of "great" drumming on the big screen. I think it's about that relationship between a young drummer who wants to be the best (whether you think that is admirable or not is beside the point) and the crotchety, foul mouthed,bullying band leader (whether you like him or his style or not, is also beside the point). If it's not the film you wanted it to be, maybe leave your preconceptions at the door, and enjoy it for what it actually is. I read the review by the "real" drummer. He obviously knows best, he's a drummer. Its a film, a story.

[Tsundoku]

I teach film, and have been looking a lot lately at ideology in big US pictures (i.e. Rocky and "the American Dream"). I guess I'm primed to respond to films in this way. I did enjoy it! Don't get me wrong, I just think some of the values evident are bit - wrong.

[Filthy Rich]

I watched it with my girlfriend and while she hated it, I thought it was... ok. I think all the criticisms in that piece above are absolutely valid if you view it as a film about jazz or music or drumming. But it wasn't really about that was it? It was a film about two guys trying to impose their will power on each other and jazz was kinda like the thematic equivalent of a mcguffin (is there a word for that?) on which to hang the battle. I'm not sure it was the best choice of mcguffin though cos those criticisms are so very valid - there was no real sense that any of the characters were interested at all in music. Maybe the film would have rang more true if they'd made it about something (anything) else. Beyond all that there were a number of bits that pissed me off and stopped me enjoying it. Just stupid plot bits like him having to race to the event - if it was all about talent then why would the bad guy put in such arbitrary conditions? Artificial things like that jerked me out of the film altogether.