Precautions for selling rare LPS

[Turboellis]

Folks

I've heard some horror stories on these forums about selling rare records, only to have the buyer claim that it was a different item that arrived.

I have a few LPs I want to sell which will be at around the 60-70 quid mark, I hope, and I wonder what I can do to minimize the risk of being fucked over.

What I've thought of:
1. Taking copious amounts of photos of the item.
2. Registering a bank account for bank transfer on Discogs, so Paypal don't poke their noses in and refund the scumbag.

Anything else you'd recommend?

Turbo

[reza]

unless youve already fantastic feedback you wont sell them easily with bank transfer as an option as buyers have no protection

only send signed for and if for some reason they dont arrive here in the uk you can claim, with royal mail up to fifty quid anyway

change your seller settings to must have feedback of say %95 or more to be able to buy which sorts out most bad buyers

oh and only send to the paypal payment adress not to any other i.e the one on discogs

[bongolia]

I've sold a few more expensive things with no problems, like a few items in the 250 quid range

* always communicate using the messages on Discogs
* never accept payment outside of Discogs or use Paypal Friends & Family etc
* if the addresses are different confirm which to send to, if they say "Discogs" cancel the payment and ask them to add the correct address to PayPal and resubmit (you'll lose the 30p fee, but worth it on an expensive record - for very cheap things I'll send it anywhere they want...)
* just cancel the order if buyer appears shady or starts asking for a discount - you can get the negative feedback removed easily via a support request if the buyer has been messing you around or asking to pay privately etc

[bennyboy]

I've sold a few £50 and up records on Discogs and never had an issue, apart from the very occasional missing item (which was the post office's fault, and it was eventually returned). If you want to be safe, take a picture, use tracking, keep all communication on discogs, and make sure you adjust your buyer rating so you can filter out all the low feedback buyers that will always cause trouble. Discogs are always helpful is theres an issue and they can see the communication.

[candiman]

These precautions may help with Discogs but you're basically f*cked on evil bay aren't you? And of course a buyer can't receive neg feedback.

I was talking to a guy who sold a watch on t'bay. It was about 2 grand. Buyer claimed it was significantly not as described (I think it was that and not "not received"). Ebay/Paypal refunded straightaway with no discussion. He of course had the buyers address (in Portugal) so got a cheap Easyjet flight out there and knocked on the buyer's door. Needless to say the buyer was somewhat surprised, but the seller got his watch back.

[Turboellis]

Reza, Bongolia, Bennyboy, candiman

Thanks for all the great tips.
I think what I'll do is wait for a few days, then make a definitive list of tips for easy viewing.

Re: filtering out all the low feedback buyers
I have mine set to 92% and that seems to do the job mostly, however completely new buyers with no feedback can slip through this as they don't have a feedback rating at all. It's not been a problem for me so far, but I wanted to put the information on here.

Re: Ebay
It's a vipers nest that I prefer to avoid. Yahoo Auctions is not quite as bad, but I rarely bother with that either.

Re: Easyjet flights
That is an excellent story! I'd rather not have to do that ...

This won't be for everyone but I rip everything as a matter of course. So if a buyer tells me e.g. that the record is faulty in some way (as has happened) I can go back and listen to it and confirm it. That's been very useful on occasions I haven't noticed a problem on playback ...

Any more tips?

[Milesago]

Whats wrong with accepting Paypal friends & family payments? Surely it removes the threat of automatic refund or am I missing something?
And wheres the danger in sending to a non PayPal address?
Sounds like i need to read the terms & conditions again.

[bongolia]

Whats wrong with accepting Paypal friends & family payments? Surely it removes the threat of automatic refund or am I missing something?

hmm, good point, I could do with a re-read of the terms. Maybe it would be ok for the seller, as long as they mark "Payment received" in Discogs? but generally this kind of thing is a red flag...

And wheres the danger in sending to a non PayPal address?

proof of postage needs to be to the PayPal address on the order else seller isn't covered.
PayPal often sides with the buyer, so you are still theoretically at risk, but at least it covers against "it didn't arrive" claims if it was sent with tracked delivery.

[Milesago]

hmm, good point, I could do with a re-read of the terms. Maybe it would be ok for the seller, as long as they mark "Payment received" in Discogs? but generally this kind of thing is a red flag...

If the buyer uses the friends & family option to send you payment, then he has no comeback within Paypal. There is no claims procedure he can follow. I allow this with buyers who do not want to pay for registered shipping (AKA tracking). This tends to be for cheaper items, e.g. singles priced under a tenner, where tracking (which doubles the shipping cost) makes the overall cost very unattractive.

proof of postage needs to be to the PayPal address on the order else seller isn't covered.
PayPal often sides with the buyer, so you are still theoretically at risk, but at least it covers against "it didn't arrive" claims if it was sent with tracked delivery.

This is where my understanding of the rules may be out of date. A seller requesting delivery to an address other than (one of) his registered PayPal address(es) means he is also no longer protected and cannot file a claim anyway -- is this not correct?

[Milesago]

BTW, regarding using bank transfer for payment within discogs, this works very well within certain countries inside the euro zone, but less well in others. Its supposed to be free to send payment between private (i.e. non business) accounts inside the euro zone, but banks in some countries (e.g. Greece, Italy) manage to introduce a charge for what they still insist on calling a "service", despite EU law. Or thats what people in those countries have told me. However, I admit to having limited understanding of the banking system. It's a strange world where seemingly nonsensical ideas like "negative interest" have meaning -- it's mind blowing. Outside the euro zone, you're bound to run into currency conversion charges at the very least, so ask your bank about it before offering buyers this option.

[reza]

The problem with friends and family is if it genuinely doesn't arrive or arrives damaged and your not totally mercenary and you wish to preserve your reputation you cant claim with the postal company as you cant prove the value having no official documentation so if its to a friend or perhaps regular buyer and you feel in fairness you'd like to refund them you've had it

sellers who offer me F&F if "I want it at that price" I let them know I'll pay the fees (to cover myself) and send payment normally

[Milesago]

The problem with friends and family is if it genuinely doesn't arrive or arrives damaged and your not totally mercenary and you wish to preserve your reputation you cant claim with the postal company as you cant prove the value having no official documentation so if its to a friend or perhaps regular buyer and you feel in fairness you'd like to refund them you've had it

sellers who offer me F&F if "I want it at that price" I let them know I'll pay the fees (to cover myself) and send payment normally

I don't see it in the same negative light you do. I don't think it has anything to do with being mercenary. It's about risk assessment and being upfront about the consequences of friends+family payments to the buyer. In 30+ years of selling records through the mail, I've only had a handful of packages genuinely go missing. Over the years I've learned enough to judge when to allow friends & family payment, and when to insist on tracking. If I'm sending an LP to Germany or Scandanavia or Japan -- or someone I know -- I'm happy to accept 'normal' paypal payment without tracking, meaning I accept all risk for loss or damage. For other destinations, I may have to insist on tracking -- or, if the buyer agrees, offer the friends+family option.

[Cacapo]

Usually a few messages to the buyer can help resolve any questions. Tell him up front why you are afraid of being hosed and see how that goes. Communication is key and not everyone is out to to get you.

If it's 500 or up I'd even consider making a phone call of sorts.

[Great Day]

Honestly, I think you'll be ok. Generally not had any issues with people on discogs.

On the rare occasion that someone wants to collect to save on shipping, it must be cash on collection.
If you don't have a tracking number, Paypal will automatically refund the buyer if there is an issue.

I suppose you might want to think about listing your heavy hitters right now, before the EU stuff in a months time kicks in.
i.e. import duty/customs might slow down the sale of the record to potential European buyers.

Obvious stuff like packing the record outside of the outer sleeve is always a good idea to avoid rips. Together in a plastic outer if you can.
Basically, minimize the chance of it being returned for any reason.

[bongolia]

I suppose you might want to think about listing your heavy hitters right now, before the EU stuff in a months time kicks in.
i.e. import duty/customs might slow down the sale of the record to potential European buyers.

most other countries are less stingy on the level that duty or VAT is applied though. the UK is particularly low at GBP 15
will hit UK buyers (and EU sellers) more than EU buyers...