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  • Am i being unreasonable?

    Bit of a long story but here goes. I bought 18 45s off ebay as they were all 99p 'Buy It Now' due to that free listing day. I assumed postage would be about a fiver. I spent about three hours going through hundreds of records they'd listed and grabbed all the ones I wanted and then sent them an email telling them I'd about 18 records and needed a total for postage and they sent me an email back informing me that it was £10 postage.

    So I weighed up 18 45s, all small hole ones to keep the weight up (most of the ones I'd bought were jukebox 45s), lots were in card sleeves too plus I weighed a load of cardboard for packaging too. It came to 392 grammes (their package would have been lighter) which first class using Royal Mail is £3.67 so allowing for packaging costs too it's easily less than half what they expected me to pay.

    So I refused to pay the £10 and told them I'd happily pay £5 and that I'd pay by cheque if they wanted to dodge the PayPal charges. They've basically refused to let me do that. Apparently it's not open to negotiation. Apparently I have no idea of how much it costs to 'set up a shipping department'. I also used the word 'bullshit' to describe their postal charges which they've apparently reported me to ebay for. Apparently they're very offended by this word. In fact they seem to be trying to use that as an excuse to cancel my order.

    So am I being unreasonable? I do realise they have a business to run (it's a proper business rather than just a seller) but I think that they should charge a postage packaging rate that reflects the costs of packging and postage and cover their business costs in the price of their records.

    Sorry if that was a bit longwinded. But any thoughts or opinions what be appreciated.

  • #2
    No mate you're not being unreasonable, some sellers think they can charge what they like for postage/shipping, and so you're right to challenge the price when you know that the weight and cost of packaging is well under what they're charging you.

    Then on the other hand, if you want your records it's best to try and meet them halfway. I think they can decide to cancel your order if you won't pay the costs they've stated or that you've agreed to pay.

    A while ago I bought a pair of 12"s from a UK seller, who charged £3.00 postage per 12", and offered a deal to double-up of £1.00 off. So if you "do the math", that's still £5.00 postage for 2 x 12"s - If I sell 2 x 12"s, including the cost of new packaging I charge around £2.50 to £3.00, so I took it up with the guy. Reasonable e-mails went back and forth until he decided he'd have to do something so he brought the price down to £4.00 - still over but more acceptable.

    Their argument about the cost of "setting up a shipping department" really is bullshit though - you should be paying the cost of post and packing materials only, and anything further such as handling fees or Paypal charges needs to be made specifically clear.

    Hope that's a helpful second opinion..
    Let him have the lot for £2.00 - we were only going to throw 'em out anyway...

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    • #3
      I'm having some issues like this now with a guy in the States. I won a tune on eBay. He wants to charge me $20 for shipping. To add insult he doesn't take PayPal, so I've either got to send cash or pay via Bidpay. I've emailed him, very politely, how much I usually pay for shipping from the US and I haven't had a reply yet. I don't want to get negative feedback. What are the options?
      http://www.djhistory.com

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      • #4
        What he said, really. I have noticed that some sellers do use postage to make money when they're offering extremely low start prices, though, and I've learnt to look out for that: it's a legitimate tactic if it's all up front, I suppose, and maybe that's what they're doing. But if that was their excuse, surely the postal charges should've been set out fair'n'square on the page so you can see how they're working it BEFORE you bid.

        I put a few bits up on the 99p or under free listing day, but only things I wouldn't have felt too confident of people bidding for normally (ie: at a £2.99+ start) and I'm sending some bits of that batch out (with all the postal faff, admin etc) for a payback of only 99p. But I knew that was the deal when I listed the stuff, other items did much better, and overall the end result is totally fine.

        My 'shipping department' consists of a good roll of parcel tape, a stanley knife and some cardboard mailers, kitchen scales and a Royal Mail table of charges per weight printed out off the internet. And a black felt pen. Not exactly a pricey set up, but can't see what else you'd need.

        So - not unreasonable at all, because (a) postal charges should've been prominently listed on the page if it's so important to them to charge above cost, and (b) they shouldn't have listed the items so low in the first place if they weren't prepared to risk selling them for that amount.
        a giant steam-powered turntable in warwickshire plays six foot cement recordings of Prince Albert's speeches to the rejoicing populace

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        • #5
          Originally posted by [b
          Quote[/b] ]My 'shipping department' consists of a good roll of parcel tape, a stanley knife and some cardboard mailers, kitchen scales and a Royal Mail table of charges per weight printed out off the internet. And a black felt pen. Not exactly a pricey set up, but can't see what else you'd need
          'Kin 'ell Wayne, I think there must be a standard shipping department, Nottingham branch! Those are the exact same components that comprise my very own son_of_cantona postage hub. Did you source all your equipment in partnership with that other great Notts company Wilkinson's? They were very helpful in assisting me in setting up my shipping department.

          Blighty, I would advise you to heed the words of the Hicks - "You're fuckin' right! They're wrong!". Clear example of pisstaking. Would the seller be American by any chance?

          Benicio
          Jet Boy stole my baby.

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          • #6
            Proper takin' the piss Blighty !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! I'm sick to shit of this bullshit postage malarky !!!!!!!!!! !! I've sold stuff recently to peeps and given the postage price and they've actually questioned the amount to check its correct (i.e. they don't think it's enough !?!?)

            Fook, if you sell summik on the bay, then the final price it goes for is the final price of the rekkids + the STANDARD rate of postage for them plus the NEW mailer in my world, full stop.

            Blokes obviously a complete ARSE HOLE !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!&# 33;

            sorry if i offend, been on the Beers with Sie, Chris, Hayd and Jo big up yerselves
            SECRET RUSSIAN ROMANTIC GUITAR PSYCH BREAKS

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            • #7
              I'm with you Blighty, you were right calling this guy on his bullshit postage rates. I bought some stuff from a guy once who charged like $3 for the 1st item and $1.50 for each additional item. My total shipping came to about $7.50 for 4 cd's, but when they arrived I found that he only paid like $1.50 to have them sent to me via media mail. I was pretty miffed that he made $6 off of me...the least he could've done was insure the package or at the very least pay for delivery confirmation. Some people are absolute twats.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by [b
                Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ Feb. 20 2004,19:43)]I haven't had a reply yet. I don't want to get negative feedback. What are the options?
                You could try sending him another e-mail, with the same example of your usual shipping costs and ask again if there's any way he can send it cheaper, maybe by surface letter mail etc.

                Were the shipping fees made clear in the auction?

                If not, as a last resort you could ask that if he's not able to move on his cost at all, would it be possible to mutually agree to cancel the auction, as you had no idea shipping would be so much more expensive than what you usually pay. Maybe he'll budge, and if not he may agree to just forget it.

                Basically I've found the best policy is to try to be as reasonable as possible to get a more acceptable result.
                Let him have the lot for £2.00 - we were only going to throw 'em out anyway...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by [b
                  Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ Feb. 20 2004,19:43)]I'm having some issues like this now with a guy in the States. I won a tune on eBay. He wants to charge me $20 for shipping. To add insult he doesn't take PayPal, so I've either got to send cash or pay via Bidpay. I've emailed him, very politely, how much I usually pay for shipping from the US and I haven't had a reply yet. I don't want to get negative feedback. What are the options?
                  Bill, I'd send the guy the link to the USPS postage calculator (http://ircalc.usps.gov/weight.asp?Contents=0) and ask him to send it 'Airmail Letter Post'. As he'll see, a packaged LP, sent as an envelope, is well within those dimensions (4 - 7 Days $8.70 Max. length 24", Max. length, height, depth combined 36" ) and $11.30 for handling a parcel weighing 1lb is just taking the piss.

                  Blighty, I think everyone's said everything already. Hope you get the records for a reasonable price. If that's the seller's idea of running a business he won't be around for long (ask how much his overheads for good customer service are). As a footnote, I won a record recently and the seller quoted a silly figure for shipping, but I wasn't in the mood to argue and I wanted the record so I paid up. A few days later, I had an email from PayPal and she'd refunded the excess S+H, without me even asking. Which was nice.
                  You freeking scientologists are all the same, quible, dribble and then demand ice creams. Ohhhhhhhhhhh.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by [b
                    Quote[/b] (Rich Hero @ Feb. 22 2004,12:04)]I won a record recently and the seller quoted a silly figure for shipping, but I wasn't in the mood to argue and I wanted the record so I paid up. A few days later, I had an email from PayPal and she'd refunded the excess S+H, without me even asking. Which was nice.
                    What, no Fast Show jpg?

                    Let him have the lot for £2.00 - we were only going to throw 'em out anyway...

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                    • #11
                      Cheers for all the feedback, guys. I feel better about the whole thing now. The seller hasn't responded to my last email and I get the feeling I won't get the records. I've just got 18 negative feedbacks to worry about. It's stupid really. Had they been reasonable I would have bought from them again. I generally do when people are selling huge amounts of stock for cheap.

                      Originally posted by [b
                      Quote[/b] ] As a footnote, I won a record recently and the seller quoted a silly figure for shipping, but I wasn't in the mood to argue and I wanted the record so I paid up. A few days later, I had an email from PayPal and she'd refunded the excess S+H, without me even asking. Which was nice.
                      I bought a album for a UK seller a while back and they hadn't quoted shipping on the auction page. When the auction was over they informed me they wanted £5 for postage. This is a seller in the UK. I really wanted this record and it's very rare so I didn't want to mess things up but I wasn't going to pay a fiver so I asked if that included insurance and told him that I expected insurance if I was going to pay that much. He agreed and I paid my £30 plus £5 p&p and when the album arrived it was uninsured in a reused mailer with £1.37 postage paid. I contacted the seller who claimed he'd 'forgotten' to insure it. I harrassed the guy for a couple weeks and he finally sent me a cheque to refund the excess postage costs. The cheque was unsigned. So I had to harrass him again for a while and finally got about £3 back from him. People create so much bad feeling and guarantee no return custom when they do this. What's the point?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by [b
                        Quote[/b] (Blighty @ Feb. 22 2004,15:48)]People create so much bad feeling and guarantee no return custom when they do this. What's the point?
                        At the risk of sounding like the thread about the hair soundtrack has turned me into some sort of hippy, they'll get theirs in the great karmic (sp?) scheme of things ...

                        It's plain greed and you're right to point that out to them. Unfortunately people aren't always so keen to have their shortcomings brought to light

                        All power to your ebay elbow though - can I drop by and give you some positive feedback to help out??
                        FunkyDown
                        Facebook | Mixcloud | Soundcloud

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                        • #13
                          So let me get this straight.

                          You've done all this backwards and forwards with these guys, emailed them a message telling them 'bullshit' against what they're advised (not a good start really, if you put yourselves in their shoes) and now you're about to be reported to ebay, 18 negatives are about to land on your lap, and you're not going to get the records that, as you stated in your opening message, took you hours to plough through and pull out the best ones.

                          All for a fiver.

                          Personally, I don't quite get that. Of course I don't like fraudulent and steeped up prices as much as the next man, but it's a two way street when it comes to something like this, and I don't think a fivers difference is unreasonable at all. Especially considering the back lash that is about to come your way. It's clearly caused you enough grief for you to open up to the board. I dunno know - I don't want to call it petty but, it seems like an awful lot of grief for £5.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by [b
                            Quote[/b] (Blighty @ Feb. 22 2004,15:48)]Cheers for all the feedback, guys. I feel better about the whole thing now. The seller hasn't responded to my last email and I get the feeling I won't get the records. I've just got 18 negative feedbacks to worry about.    It's stupid really. Had they been reasonable I would have bought from them again. I generally do when people are selling huge amounts of stock for cheap.
                            I once won a record and when I pointed out the unreasonable S+H the guy was charging and asked if he could send it surface to economise, he didn't enter into any discussion and I left it at that. Then, a few months later I got an official warning from eBay for non-payment. When I explained to them what had happened and pointed out my otherwise exemplary feedback, they said that I should have checked the charges first (we all know how much it costs so who's going to do that every single time?) and cleared the warning. He didn't leave negative feedback. Although I can see where your coming from Greg, there's more at stake here than a fiver. And, although they can leave 18 negatives for you, only one will count. Likewise, you can leave eighteen for them, and an awful lot of writing can be squeezed into eighteen lines of feedback...

                            And how about naming and shaming, Blighty?
                            You freeking scientologists are all the same, quible, dribble and then demand ice creams. Ohhhhhhhhhhh.

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                            • #15
                              It's the principle of the whole thing, Mr Belson. I've never been one to bend over and take the arse fucking. In the long run that makes things worse for everyone. I always think that in this country we don't complain enough and we all suffer as a result. It's not going to do their business any good if half their customers feel like they're getting ripped off.

                              Obviously in retrospect I shouldn't have called their business practices 'bullshit' and it's quite against my character to do something like that but it happened and it was honest and I don't regret it. Ebay aren't going to care. All they care about is that endless stream of money. And they haven't threatened me with any negative feedback. They seem more interested in cancelling my order.

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