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Libs soon illegal on the bay

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  • Libs soon illegal on the bay

    first please allow me to apologise for the tabloidish topic title. its not true, but there's a chance. ok?

    I was bidding for the whole sonoton catalogue and then the auction was cancelled by the german seller and I received a huge mail - all in german - stating that it was not ok to sells these type of products at the bay. that would be true of all library, not just these sodding sonotons?!?

    Sehr geehrter Bieter,

    ich darf den Katalog leider nicht verkaufen, da die Firma
    Sonoton rechtlich gegen mich vorgehen will, wenn weiterhin Kataloge,
    LPs oder CDs ihres Verlages (über ebay) verkauft werden.


    the main point i guess is here. my german is rotten so can't be sure.

  • #2
    Looks like Sonoton threatened the seller with legal action if he didn't cancel the auction.

    KPM have done similar in the past but it seems to be a very random affair at the moment.
    new SPOKE release: >>> SEE HERE <<< RKM LIBRARY BEATS


    • #3
      yes that&#39;s the translation ....
      you can always try to buy them of him (without ebay )


      • #4
        I had a few Sonoton CD&#39;s listed on eBay, I was e-mailed by Robert Narholtz &amp; threatened with legal action.
        why is that cd black?


        • #5
          quite a bizarre. is it because they were never released that you can&#39;t sell them? i don&#39;t see where the logic in that lies, unless libraries still technically own the records (i.e. have material rights, not just the intellectual) their music is printed on.

          could it be just empty threaths?


          • #6
            isn&#39;t it to do with the copyright?

            Similar to sample CD&#39;s - you can&#39;t re-sell those either because you dont actually own the samples, just the right to use those samples.


            • #7
              Sonoton stated that the CD&#39;s remained their property.

              I also had an e-mail from Les Hurdle, stating it was illegal to sell them, that it was musicians union rules, no one would elaborate any further, so take your pick
              why is that cd black?


              • #8
                that must indeed be how it is. in that case they&#39;re overdoing it a bit i guess. since the people who buy them from the ebay are not going to use them for their original purpose and are definetely not competing with the libraries themselves.

                can&#39;t see a radiostation (or any production company) starting to buy their libs from the bay.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by [b
                  Quote[/b] (mokka @ Mar. 31 2004,11:11)]the people who buy them from the ebay are not going to use them for their original purpose and are definetely not competing with the libraries themselves.
                  But, to play devil&#39;s advocate, that doesn&#39;t necessarily mean that they&#39;ll be using them for legal purposes either. From the library&#39;s point of view reselling is illegal, end of story (actually from any point of view - it&#39;s just whether that bothers you or not). If people are buying the records for sampling they should be clearing the samples and paying for them, and if they&#39;re buying them to listen to they should be buying a comp that gives the library labels a cut of the profits. They&#39;re in it for the money so if they believe they&#39;re missing out...
                  You freeking scientologists are all the same, quible, dribble and then demand ice creams. Ohhhhhhhhhhh.


                  • #10
                    What gets me is that you&#39;d think after all this time the libraries would finally realise that the attention they receive from collectors and beat-diggers might actually be good for them&#33; How many licenses, compilations and sync rights have come their way since large-scale interest occurred in library music during the 90s easy listening boom?

                    So, at the end of the day this prohibition of sales must boil down to the contractual &#39;arrangements&#39; some of the libraries had with the musicians. But as the people buying and selling these records aren&#39;t tv &amp; radio production houses, but merely individuals, I don&#39;t think there&#39;s much more the libraries or musicians can do about it than have a bit of a moan to ebay, which frankly comes off looking pretty pathetic.
                    Let him have the lot for £2.00 - we were only going to throw 'em out anyway...


                    • #11
                      i&#39;m not going to name names here, but i have dealings with people in the library business (not just the musicians) and they couldn&#39;t give a bugger about me having some of their records.

                      it&#39;s maybe one or two libraries kicking off, but i don&#39;t think it&#39;s going to happen across the board&#33;


                      • #12
                        There&#39;s absolutely no PROVEN illegality (as in tested in court) to selling them. Same with selling promos. But eBay always takes the side of anybody claiming copyright infringement and just pulls the auctions. So I guess it will have to be S0n0t0n from now on in the description. Following on from that, why are people now able to sell KPM openly and not get their auctions cancelled? Presumably the KPM rights-holding people got bored with reporting to eBay and realised they had better things to do with their time.


                        • #13
                          Maybe it would be worth the &#39;big&#39; labels repressing a selection of the more popular titles as a limited re-run on vinyl?, wouldn&#39;t that make more commercial sense rather than watching potential profits pass them by.
                          derelicts of dialect


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by [b
                            Quote[/b] (A de Vere @ Mar. 31 2004,12:15)]There&#39;s absolutely no PROVEN illegality (as in tested in court) to selling them.
                            Very good point.

                            Originally posted by [b
                            Quote[/b] ]So I guess it will have to be S0n0t0n from now on in the description.
                            Or do something as creative as the guy who recently auctioned a copy of the cover of the Grey Album and said he would include a free Dangermouse CD. I thought that was a classic.

                            I have a question regarding library records. Obviously the numbers in which they were produced are small but I always feel the reason why they are rather expensive is because it&#39;s such a pain to actually track them down due to their unique distribution model. So, my question is: Does anyone know how many vinyl copies KPM or Sonoton on Bruton actually pressed?

                            What about today&#39;s library CDs? How many of them are being made? I see some library distributor making downloads available and streaming snippets in addition (but maybe soon: instead of) distributing CDs?


                            • #15
                              it&#39;s a very random experience. i sell a lot of promo CDs on eBay - occupational hazard - and certain major labels (mostly R&amp;B / hip-hop related) appear to employ &#39;agents&#39; to look out for the artists&#39; copyright &quot;welfare&quot; on eBay. what this translates as is the &#39;agent&#39; contacting eBay to report the seller as infringing copyright for selling a particular item. sometimes it&#39;s because it&#39;s described as a promotional item - in which case you just relist and change the wording - but it can also be down to legal reasons between a label / artist / region / and / or country.

                              i&#39;ve had auctions ended for non-promotional items purely because the &#39;agent&#39; stated it would harm the label&#39;s interests. although i&#39;ve argued the case with both eBay and the &#39;agent&#39; (professional companies employed by labels) you never gain any ground on the issue.

                              when it comes to &#39;copyright&#39;, or money, eBay is as corporate as any other global brand.

                              maybe the answer is to respond and claim copyright ownership..