Dum dum

[sermad]

What the hell is this?

Dum Dum £10.99 LP New Crate Records
Pre Order Now

CRATED001 - 180 Grm LP .. From the same hard hitting team that brought us the delightful 180g reissue of the legendary Mohawks masterpiece The Champ comes the roaring, soaring brass and rhythm of Dum Dum!

An absolute drum heavy belter that has remained sealed tight in Fort Knox like collections of top name producers and DJs countrywide. Dum Dum saw a UK only release back in 1972 with John Fiddy accompanied by heavy hitters Brian Bennett, Alan Hawkshaw (does he ever quit?&#33, Keith Mansfield and Herbie Flowers. Lost in dusty shelves and near obscurity for the best part of 30 years, it's resurfaced only by the golden hands of those boys at Crate Records USA.

Rammed so tight (its criminal) with amazing Cop style action thrillers and super heavy drum breaks all over the shop! This gem is 50% The Mohawks 50% Starsky & Hutch.

This record is so rare that three figure bidding wars on eBay are commonplace. The fact that it's only now getting an official re-release is testament to the scarcity of the record. Guaranteed to bring enjoyment to masses of new fans wondering why no one ever gave a damn enough to track this sucker down and get it back out there in the first place!..

Tracks..
1. The Dum Dum Theme ,
2. Dragnet ,
3. The Bootlegger ,
4. Death in the Family ,
5. Art the Grass ,
6. The Untouchables ,
7. Cosa Nostra ,
8. Vendetta ,
9. Theme from the Godfather ,
10. Peter Gunn ,
11. New York Rumble ,
12. Walk On the Wild Side

[john stapleton]

a bootleg?

[Matt Hero]

Does this make anyone else feel a bit cross ? Hope you get that money together soon it'll be nice to see a re-issue LP done properly.

[Rich Hero]

The fact that it's only now getting an official re-release is testament to the scarcity of the record.   Guaranteed to bring enjoyment to masses of new fans wondering why no one ever gave a damn enough to track this sucker down and get it back out there in the first place!

Anyone know whether this is legit or not (John, Serms)? Sounds very iffy to me so there's new one for the dictionary...

official
= non-legit

I would love to be proved wrong and I will gladly eat my words if so. And yes, if it's shady it pisses me off royally. Since when did scarcity figure in whether and when record sees a reissue? Has it taken that long to find a clean copy to boot, since it's not as if the players behind it have been shrouded in mystery, making getting to the people involved problematic? Grrr...      

Makes the work of Licorice Soul, Serms, Jonny Trunk et al. all the more important.

[Sie Vulture]

Hmmm... (pause for long, slow intake of breath)

Matt wondered if this has p*ssed anyone off, we'll I'll gladly raise my hand. This LP was a prime candidate for someone like Serm to legitimately reissue in full or Licorice Soul to place two of the bangin' tracks onto a loud 45 with an interview with the players involved, royalties due etc etc.

Kinda looks like that opportunity's gone. This wasn't on the L.Soul immediate hit list, but it's certainly an album that Chris has been championing for many a year. I only recently found a copy (my first dig of 2004) and can confirm it is a solid LP. Knowing the diggin' expertise of the UK Vultures who post here, I'm sure most of you have got a copy...

I wonder where these US guys bought it from...

My fiver says this is a bootleg...

I'm a bit now... and it's only 9.10am.

[chrisvulture]

this has to be a bootleg...

A while ago John Fiddy said to me that he 'might' have radioplay versions of some of the tracks that they cut for a BBC show, but that the masters to the rest of it were in the black hole that is the Philips vaults. At the time JFM has just moved and their archives were a big mess too. he said the Beeb versions were loads better too.

has that boot of Soul Cure from the same label actually appeared for sale anywhere yet? wouldnt mind a copy if anyone has seen one!!!

[Matt Hero]

Quote[/b] (chrisvulture @ April 21 2004,10:16)]A while ago John Fiddy said to me that he 'might' have radioplay versions of some of the tracks that they cut for a BBC show, but that the masters to the rest of it were in the black hole that is the Philips vaults. At the time JFM has just moved and their archives were a big mess too. he said the Beeb versions were loads better too.

Hmmm, makes you wonder whether there is a BBC Radioplay LP of these these edited tracks out there somewhere.

Once again one for Lord Thames, is there a definitive list of the BBC Radioplay Lps ? I've only got a few of them myself, but I'd imagine that there are probably hundreds of them that were pressed up.

[sermad]

This *really* hacked me off. 'Dum Dum' was high on the list of things to track down this year. Already been speaking for a few months to john fiddy about it and I was starting to get on the case with philips.

Soul cure was another that was high on the list. I've already had talks with polydor when I tried to do the moody so I was going for that too.

It's like sie says - I would do the lp and give the storming club cuts to lsd for the 45 plays. Everyone would win. Now - no nice loud properly mastered lp and no club 45. No money to the artist also.

Which is my major beef considering I've sat down in these artists house - been given cups of tea and biscuits and treated like a king.

Totally sucks.

[Benicio Del Toffo]

Quote[/b] ]I only recently found a copy (my first dig of 2004) and can confirm it is a solid LP. Knowing the diggin' expertise of the UK Vultures who post here, I'm sure most of you have got a copy...

Wish I did. I've never seen one outside of t'internet. Same goes for 'Soul Cure'.

It does indeed suck that some shoddy boot has pipped Serms to the post. It just reiterates that observing protocol slows things down and makes you vulnerable to being gazumped by those with less morals and an eye on the fast buck. Not that I'm advocating that Serms becomes a bootlegger!

There is no easy solution to this I suppose, maybe a more obscure release and therefore less likely to be in the hands of such tossers? I dunno.

I think it would be cool to do some form of vinyl comp that acknowledges the artist/producer i.e. a 'Best of..' Nick Ingman / John Cameron / Brian Bennett etc. It would certainly give you scope to use several excellent source LPs and would only really be able to be done by those with extensive collections rather than someone who's just happened on one copy of Moody or Dum Dum etc.

[Matt Hero]

Ok, I was a bit cross when this first appeared yesterday, but now I'm about to cross the line into livid.

I guess this is a toughie for the ordinary record buyer to deal with. Given the knowledge on this board, it has been fairly straight forward to ascertain whether this LP was legit or not.

If you're a punter in a record shop, how are you supposed to be able to do the same thing ? Even if you *run* a shop, how are you supposed to know for certain whether a product is legit ? Even if you know the product is dubious, do you stock it because you know there is going to be a demand ?

I used to be of the belief that if the rights holder couldn't be bothered to give a re-release, then a bootleg was ok. Seeing the hard work done by people here on their re-issues, being lucky enough to talk to artists, and hearing the shoddy quality of some of the recent issues has made me come to a converse conclusion.

As Nick has suggested in another thread, electronic communication has made it far easier to track down the artists to get these things done properly.

Surely the only way in which an effective stop could come to these 'projects' is at distribution level ? Ok, they could still be made, but manual distribution would make these bootlegs with their disperate audience uneconomic to do.

OK, that's out of my system.

[Benicio Del Toffo]

Soul Cure bootleg

Quote[/b] ]has that boot of Soul Cure from the same label actually appeared for sale anywhere yet? wouldnt mind a copy if anyone has seen one!!!

Ho hum.

[Nick Cope]

Get the artists to make an official complaint to MCPS and the BPI. They are obliged to follow it up and have powers to shut down pressing plants if they continue to accept work from the clients responsible. Then call up the distributors and tell them that they're handling a bootleg and that the relevant bodies are already on the case.

Contrary to what some have said here, it is possible to have major dist deals with bootlegs, or those who think they can still untilise the old loophole of 'keeping monies aside while they wait for the artists to make their entitled claims' bullshit...

There is no place for this kind of thing in 2004. The old arguement of 'boots helping raise awareness' died a long time ago. Now there is absolutely no excuse.

[sermad]

I think if you chip away at the label enough they *always* let stuff be licensed. The reason why people think you have to boot is because they think it costs too much money (yeah the initial buy out is alot but you'll make it back) and also they think that the label will never grant publishing. It really comes down to that the labels have *never* been asked if they can license something. Everytime I speak to a new label I'm always straight up to the MD because nobody knows how to do it! Seriously all it takes is a phone call.

Of couse some labels still are being gits about it - There is one label who I've been dealing with for many many months now and they are just not budging. Do I bootleg the lp or do I just forget about it.

Is this what happened to dum dum, soul cure and moody - Did they try and fail so they booted it? Is it all really legal and I'm just ?

Actually until I can see a sleeve you can then be 100% sure its a boot as it *must* carry the publishing information somewhere. Every contract I've ever seen has this set in stone for a reissue.

So many questions so little time!

[chrisvulture]

Quote[/b] (Nick Cope @ April 21 2004,11:01)]Get the artists to make an official complaint to MCPS and the BPI. They are obliged to follow it up and have powers to shut down pressing plants if they continue to accept work from the clients responsible. Then call up the distributors and tell them that they're handling a bootleg and that the relevant bodies are already on the case.

Contrary to what some have said here, it is possible to have major dist deals with bootlegs, or those who think they can still untilise the old loophole of 'keeping monies aside while they wait for the artists to make their entitled claims' bullshit...

There is no place for this kind of thing in 2004. The old arguement of 'boots helping raise awareness' died a long time ago. Now there is absolutely no excuse.

the 'not in stock' line is most interesting! what is going on there???

[Mr Divine]

Never mind the bootlegging, what annoys me is that mere mortals can walk into a shop and come out with Moody, Dum Dum and Soul Cure...