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stylus for 78rpm

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  • stylus for 78rpm

    As I have almost 0 experience with 78s, so my questions are:

    Does it matter if I play them with my regular needle (spherical)? Does it wear the vinyl/lacquer out? Does the needle wear out more? Do I have to use a special (eg. conical) needle?

    I'm talking about 5-6 plays btw, definitelly no more than 10.

  • #2
    you can play a 78 with with a vinyl needle no problem

    shellac is pretty tough - original 78 needles used to be basically a metal nail so you wont damage the discs.

    the only difference is the sound quality. you'll be losing a bit by using a vinyl needle but even if you had a conical needle different 78s respond better to different sized conical needles.
    Chimptown, now twinned with Cockermouth, Penistone and Big Beaver, Pennsylvania..

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    • #3
      Originally posted by chimptown View Post
      you can play a 78 with with a vinyl needle no problem

      shellac is pretty tough - original 78 needles used to be basically a metal nail so you wont damage the discs.

      the only difference is the sound quality. you'll be losing a bit by using a vinyl needle but even if you had a conical needle different 78s respond better to different sized conical needles.
      Thanks a lot mate. Will give it a go. Cheers.

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      • #4
        Watcha got?
        Twang is as twang does.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by billybuck View Post
          Watcha got?
          Stanton 500.V3

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          • #6
            Sorry - I mean't what 78's
            Twang is as twang does.

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            • #7
              Playing 78s with a tip designed for vinyl is bad idea. Not only will the small tip radius ( Typically 0.0005" to 0.0007" ) make the stylus drag around in the bottom of the groove (and hence play more crackle than music!) , you will accelerate the tip wear and should not then use it for playing vinyl again.

              The cheapest option is to fit a ceramic cartridge for which 78 styli are still available cheaply - BSR SC12H, SX5M, SX6M, Sonotone 9TA, or ACOS GP91. Given their high output (about 1v!) You can probably just plug the deck into your line in. Better, magnetic carts also have 78 styli; Shure do one I think for the N75 or M44, and stanton also do one for the 500, but expect to pay more for this type.
              if you wanted to be 'pro' you could use a separate headshell and wire the outputs of the cart in mono. You'd have to set up the arm, traking weight etc with each swapover though.

              you may have to look at the equalisation - depending on when in the 50's the disc was pressed it could well have been mastered with a different standard to the RIAA curve which only became ubiquitous around 1954.
              "THIS IS A FINE TAPE AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF YESTERYEAR WHEN THE MUSIC WORLD WAS GOOD AND NOT FOULED UP BY THE LONG HAIR SCURVES WHO JUST BEAT WILDLY ON ANYTHING AND COME UP WITH A LOT OF STUPID NOISE THat only damnfools and liars say they like it"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by billybuck View Post
                Sorry - I mean't what 78's
                Ops A couple of blues, one weird doo-wop and a couple of more crappy ones.

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                • #9
                  electronik is totally right.

                  i wouldnt play them more than a couple of times (saves breaking them by accident too) but i've played 78s with an old 45 needle quite a few times just to see if they were worth the money for a proper transfer. you can expect around one grade in sound depreciation from using a 78 needle but i imagine you just want an idea of what they sound like.

                  do you ever see an cypriot 78s lampros? was having this conversation once with a cypriot and he was pretty adamant they didnt exist but its just a short hop to greece to make some so doesnt seem implausible
                  Chimptown, now twinned with Cockermouth, Penistone and Big Beaver, Pennsylvania..

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chimptown View Post
                    electronik is totally right.

                    i wouldnt play them more than a couple of times (saves breaking them by accident too) but i've played 78s with an old 45 needle quite a few times just to see if they were worth the money for a proper transfer. you can expect around one grade in sound depreciation from using a 78 needle but i imagine you just want an idea of what they sound like.
                    thanks chimp. Will give it a try and I will record them too. I will definetelly not buy a 78 needle to make them sound a bit better.

                    Originally posted by chimptown View Post
                    do you ever see an cypriot 78s lampros? was having this conversation once with a cypriot and he was pretty adamant they didnt exist but its just a short hop to greece to make some so doesnt seem implausible
                    If you mean 78s that say 'Made in Cyprus', then I haven't seen one, but then again I rarely browse 78s. I will ask a couple of dealers though (just out of curiosity).

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=eclectiktronik;300739]Playing 78s with a tip designed for vinyl is bad idea. ........QUOTE]

                      When I said this a few months ago you said it was OK to do - make up your mind squire !!

                      I was concerned that a diamond stylus (and thus one of the hardest minerals known to man, unlike a steel needle) would damage the grooves of shellac 78s (a natural, soft pliable material).
                      "Cover condition:Is perfect except on back cover theres an area of dirty smudge dont know what it is and covers a bit wrinkled which im sure could be flattened out"


                      http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set...6018553&type=3

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lampros77 View Post
                        If you mean 78s that say 'Made in Cyprus', then I haven't seen one, but then again I rarely browse 78s. I will ask a couple of dealers though (just out of curiosity).
                        well i always wondered if there was a cypriot equivalent to rembetika (or anything else for that matter) and a record industry there. if there was i'd assume musicians would go to greece to record and then export the records back to cyprus.

                        he said it sounded very implausible but if there were indie record labels in ghana pre war then no reason in theory why cyprus couldnt have one.


                        daddy yaya..

                        the only shellac i would be extremely careful with is discs made during the war. apparently they could just be glass with a super thin coating on top and a lot didnt survive because they just wore right through to the glass. apparently there were a number of carribbean discs made in uk in the war that suffered this fate so if you ever find one of those i'd give the vinyl needle a miss
                        Chimptown, now twinned with Cockermouth, Penistone and Big Beaver, Pennsylvania..

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                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=Daddy Ya Ya;300749]
                          Originally posted by eclectiktronik View Post
                          Playing 78s with a tip designed for vinyl is bad idea. ........QUOTE]

                          When I said this a few months ago you said it was OK to do - make up your mind squire !!

                          I was concerned that a diamond stylus (and thus one of the hardest minerals known to man, unlike a steel needle) would damage the grooves of shellac 78s (a natural, soft pliable material).
                          You're confusing things here.

                          In answer to the question will playing 78s on a tip designed for vinyl damage the discs, the answer is no. Just think of what they were originally played with!
                          However, that does not mean it is a good idea to use such a tip for playing of 78s , for the reasons I described above in my first post in this thread.
                          "THIS IS A FINE TAPE AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF YESTERYEAR WHEN THE MUSIC WORLD WAS GOOD AND NOT FOULED UP BY THE LONG HAIR SCURVES WHO JUST BEAT WILDLY ON ANYTHING AND COME UP WITH A LOT OF STUPID NOISE THat only damnfools and liars say they like it"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lampros77 View Post
                            thanks chimp. Will give it a try and I will record them too. I will definetelly not buy a 78 needle to make them sound a bit better.
                            If you are happy with the extremely hissy, indistinct thin sound resulting form playing them on a stereo vinyl stylus, that is OK. However, you are missing out on a lot - you'd be amazed at how good most 78s can sound using the correct stylus.
                            "THIS IS A FINE TAPE AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF YESTERYEAR WHEN THE MUSIC WORLD WAS GOOD AND NOT FOULED UP BY THE LONG HAIR SCURVES WHO JUST BEAT WILDLY ON ANYTHING AND COME UP WITH A LOT OF STUPID NOISE THat only damnfools and liars say they like it"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eclectiktronik View Post
                              If you are happy with the extremely hissy, indistinct thin sound resulting form playing them on a stereo vinyl stylus, that is OK. However, you are missing out on a lot - you'd be amazed at how good most 78s can sound using the correct stylus.
                              Thanks for the advice mate. If I find a needle for 7s for less than 10 euros, I may consider buying it.

                              Originally posted by chimptown
                              well i always wondered if there was a cypriot equivalent to rembetika (or anything else for that matter) and a record industry there. if there was i'd assume musicians would go to greece to record and then export the records back to cyprus.

                              he said it sounded very implausible but if there were indie record labels in ghana pre war then no reason in theory why cyprus couldnt have one.
                              Yes, most of the times (if not always) greek cypriot musicians travelled to Greece to record their songs. Ghana is a much bigger country than Cyprus, even if poorer, so it'd be more probable for a record company to exist there (the way I see it at least). I will ask and let you know nonetheless.

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