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**Col Wolfe** · 03-08-2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Si Cheeba @ Aug. 03 2004,13:02)]Ok ay, over the past 3 years I've bought quite a few pieces of vinyl from a variety of overseas locations via ebay and many other interweb type thingies...

Got a nice 45 through last night (Memphis Black) - all seemed fine. Â No sign of any probs on external packaging - a standard cardboard 45 mailer.

Took out the record - nice clean label - then took it out it's sleeve and........F***! Â big crack from centre to edge. Â

Bollox!

This is the first time I've ever had damaged records in the post...

Obviously the seller siad it was fine when he sent it - and he has good feedback so seems genuine BUT - who's responsibility is it ? Â Have any of you guys had a similar experience - what was the outcome? Â

Is there an ebay rule for damaged goods - or is it down to getting insurance from postage services ??

Any advice is appreciated! Â
Cheers

did you pay via PayPal? There's some sort of insurance cover with that scheme I think.

**Colin Hero** · 03-08-2004, 04:16 PM

I've always assumed that it is the seller's responsibility to ensure that the goods are received intact. Any disclaimer such as 'we take no responsibility once goods are posted' that I occasionally see has no bearing in consumer law as far as I know. You've paid for the goods but the goods you've received are not as described hence you are entitled to a full refund. The seller should refund you and then if they want to take things up with whoever delivered the item to recover the cost that's up to them.

I have received money back from a couple of sellers in similar circumstances and offered a full refund when someone claimed a record I had sold them was damaged in transit. I did however suspect they were trying their luck and asked for the record to be returned after which I'd refund the cost including the additional postage they'd incur. Strangely enough they never sent the record or replied to any further emails but I was prepared to take full responsibility for any damaged goods.

**wayne** · 03-08-2004, 04:47 PM

I suspect it's a grey area: sellers are entitled to insist on no responsibility for uninsured packages, because the choice has been made by the recipient to forego that peace of mind/extra cost. But the recipient can't shoulder the full cost, either, even where an item has been well packed. My own solution is to follow up a claim via the delivery service, and pass on whatever refund comes through (unless I'm in a position to provide a replacement). That said, it's only happened once, and the claim is still going through the PO, and I'll probably do a refund (or waive a few other item charges on other auctions, since the guy's a bit of a regular buyer) even if they don't pay out... Whether, legally, I HAVE to do this I'm not so certain, but it makes good business sense all round in the end!

**emperor tomato ketchup** · 03-08-2004, 05:23 PM

Legal situation is of course well confused where its across different jurisdictions. AFAIK for Uk or Irish law Colin is pretty much right.

**scriptfliper** · 03-08-2004, 06:24 PM

I had a postie Bend a 7" in half to post it thru the box!!!!.
I got a refund from the post office, i had to send them the broken record and envelope first tho (I wrote DO NOT BEND on the mailer first&#33

Not sure who is leagally responsible tho?

**threepointplay** · 03-08-2004, 06:26 PM

I have been buying & selling on the bay for approx 5 years. Â In that time I have only been involved in one transaction where a record was damaged in the post. As a buyer (for reasons stated below) I decided to take the hit. Â

As a buyer I take the decision before paying for the goods as to whether I wish to insure my purchase to cover against such an eventuality. Â Personally I base it on cost, if it is a Â£5 record I do not bother & take the chance. Â If it is a Â£30 record, i'll pay the extra few Â£s to improve the chances of receiving my purchase in good order, or ensure I have adequate compensation if I do not.

As I seller, I give my buyers the same option. Â I detail this in the auction details up-front Â If they choose not to pay for insurance & take the risk, then that is up to them.

If both parties are aware of what course of action will be taken in the event of loss or damage to the goods whilst in transit prior to its dispatch, there should not be any cause for debate.

So far the above approach has worked fine for me.

If you have not paid for any additional insurance, I think you will struggle to claim anything back from the seller or ebay.

Just out of interest, if the roles were reversed how would take matters forward?

**Nick Cope** · 03-08-2004, 07:01 PM

You'll just have to ask the fella, Si. Hopefully, he'll be nice and refund you or send another. You know how it is, some sellers are careful not to piss off customers on t'internet because it's difficult to build old fashioned human relations online. I see the postal stage as a sort of no man's land - always a risk and unless you insure, it's a risk you have to take. But I don't think the seller is obliged to refund you, just offer to send it back and hopefully he should be ok.

You nice ones and bad ones, it all evens out in the long run I guess...

**Viva Chiba** · 03-08-2004, 07:19 PM

I think this is also dependent on how you paid for the item.

Surely if you've paid for something via credit card and the items have arrived damaged or not as described you can get the credit card company to provide a refund ??

When I failed to receive some goods I paid for on my Gold Card, I was asked to try and get a refund from the seller, and to keep all relevant emails and receipts from them etc. When he failed to respond within 30 days, I filed a claim, signed a statement declaring I hadn't received the goods and lo and received a refund.

I'm fairly sure the same would apply if the goods arrived damaged.

Little unsure of the differing legal status of registered merchants and individual sellers, but my advice would be to pay for everything via credit card and, if disatissfied, get them to do most of the dirty work for you.

**vinylism** · 03-08-2004, 10:08 PM

it's just a case of contacting the seller and explaining the situation.

i had a similar deal last year with an eBay guy i bought a load of 45s off. when i got them through, it was obvious he'd not really checked them in terms of condition (or had been a little over generous in his descriptions), including one cracked 45, so i contacted him and the guy refunded me 50% of what i paid plus threw in a couple of extra 45s by way of apology.

99% of sellers will seek to make amends somehow, i'm sure.

**mech1** · 03-08-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by [b

Quote[/b] (threepointplay @ Aug. 03 2004,17:26)]As I seller, I give my buyers the same option. I detail this in the auction details up-front If they choose not to pay for insurance & take the risk, then that is up to them.

If both parties are aware of what course of action will be taken in the event of loss or damage to the goods whilst in transit prior to its dispatch, there should not be any cause for debate.

I take the same approach. I'll offer terms upfront (insurance, registeredmail , delivery confirmation) but if the buyer chooses not to accept any of them then I think sole responsibility is on their shoulders. It's a trust issue pure and simple. If a seller has flawless feedback there's no reason for me to assume he's going to stiff me nor do I expect him to reimburse me for an item that was lost/damaged/stolen in the mail. I'm currently waiting for a package to arrive from Canada and i'm starting to wonder if it was lost in transit. It was a $20 purchase so if it gets lost then I'll assume responsibility for it.

But as someone mentioned, there is a gray area. who's to say that a seller with good feedback isn't being sneaky and sending you damaged merchandise to begin with? that's a worstcase scenario but i'm sure it happens....it's his word against yours.

**Si Cheeba** · 04-08-2004, 03:23 PM

Cheers for the advice.

I didn't have the option of insurance -it was basically "this is the postage" - but yep I should have asked (in hindsight) The seller seems allright about replying but has not offered a full refund - he advises checking with my PO...yeh, right ?

I paid by PAYPAL but can't see any info on site about these situations...

At the end of the day I might suggest a 50% refund - which sound very fair to me..i.e he still gets half the money and I don't lose as much...but I may put it to him that the seller is bound to ensure safe delivery first.

In the meantime I'll keep looking for another 45...it's sod's law that it wasn't a $10 one that broke though!!...but I s'pose it could have been worse...

**BONBON** · 04-08-2004, 04:30 PM

To get your money back from paypal check there help button, it is there somewhere and they are surprising fast movers with this type, you did have 30 days to claim from the day you paid, but it might be longer now.

**Hadrian Elephant** · 04-08-2004, 04:59 PM

Bonbon

I check the VV board at work, so could you tone your avatar down a bit mate?

Cheers

**Col Wolfe** · 04-08-2004, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Hadrian Elephant @ Aug. 04 2004,15:59)]Bonbon

I check the VV board at work, so could you tone your avatar down a bit mate?

Cheers

Says he of the phallic erection avatar!!!

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