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  • Record morality

    The recent furore over 'Troublegate' has lead me to think about how often I have tested my (admited loose) sense of morality when searching for records.

    Here's some examples:

    1) A mate of mine who I hadn't seen for ages was selling his record collection. It was Hip Hop and as he was up on the going rate for this genre he charged me close to top whack for the rarer bits and pieces. However, he also had a small number of library lp's that he was selling for a fiver each because he found them in a skip and didn't know them. Knowing their worth to collectors I gladly purchased said LP's and soon after got £200 trade for one of them.
    I still feel guilty about this and feel I should have given him a fairer price. However my side says 'he din't know them anyway and was happy to get a fiver'

    2) The flipside. Another acquaintance of mine has a 12" of Ray Munnings 'Funky Nassau' on Tammi. I've known he's had it for years, but everytime I bring up the subject he gets all misty eyed about how it was always played at Hobsons (a club in Cambridge) in the early 80's and how it reminds him of his soulful youth - going to Caister etc.
    As I have no such memories of listening to it or Jump In The Water when I was a nipper going to clubs, I feel his need to keep it is greater than mine to buy it and so have never tried to get it off him.

    I'm interested as to other board members views on the lengths to which people go to in order to obtain records. I'm not asking for 'so and so ripped me off on that deal' type stories, as this would probably become quite a negative thread and god knows theres enough of those on the net. Maybe I'm just trying to find out that there is a limit at which people say 'ah fuck it, it's only a record'.
    He also contributed songs for the Jim Henson movie vehicle 'Muppets From Space'.

  • #2
    what library was it?? got any more

    I can relate to this heavily mate - If its someone I know, deal with often and Im buying a £200 record for £5 - I wont. If they found out its true value I think they would be most upset - no matter how much you plead 'I didnt know!' etc. Its got to be good for both parties - but to put a figure on it? Between a quarter to half the record price would be fair in my book.

    The second problem is really hard too! Im inclined to leave the guy his record - But if its going to sit on his racks for the next 20 years then Im also inclined to get it so it can be appreciated again...

    Um I remember selling a lib on ebay last year - It was a not very good one - in vg condition (described as such) - pretty crackly. It ended up selling for like $100 or something and I felt *really* guilty. The thing was I had a mint one so I was torn between sending that to the guy instead.

    In the send I sent the mint one as it wasnt something I listened too but if It was I dont know what I would have done. Why dont people bid according to the record grade??
    www.thesoundlibrary.net <- Changed URL

    Comment


    • #3
      Mate, if the record was crackly and you said so in the description, then you should&#39;ve sent it to the auction winner - no-one made him bid so high, and it might of made him think about bidding more carefully in the future... That&#39;s what I would do - idiot bidders cause me plenty of hassle in the long run cos they push prices up, wouldn&#39;t you agree?

      You&#39;re just too nice&#33;
      http://wakeupanddie.com
      http://weirdgearnyc.com
      http://makethingsmatter.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by [b
        Quote[/b] (sermad @ 29 May 2003,17:39)]Um I remember selling a lib on ebay last year - It was a not very good one - in vg condition - pretty crackly. It ended up selling for like &#036;100 or something and I felt *really* guilty. The thing was I had a mint one so I was torn between sending that to the guy instead.

        In the send I sent the mint one as it wasnt something I listened too but if It was I dont know what I would have done. Why dont people bid according to the record grade??
        Hmmm, i&#39;ve had this situation a few times too Sermad and i did as you did on one of the occasions and sent my own copy and - recieved no feedback. The other that i thought had gone a good £80 over the price i had expected for it (Those silly Blue Note DG collectors eh &#33 i sent as described and a week later the guy mailed me to say he was over the Moon with the record &#33;

        Law of SOD

        As far as morals go i do try to keep on the better side of &#39;em but i do remember having devilish thoughts when you showed up that Mulaiwi LP Hayd, hehe.

        I guess my worst moment of weekness was trading a House 12&quot; for an OG Letta Mbulu &quot;What is wrong with groovin&#39;&quot; 45 (neither of us new that this would become such a biggy at the time - 8 years ago ish) and it was a case of him tearing my hand off for the 12&quot; - I don&#39;t feel any guilt, honest &#33;
        SECRET RUSSIAN ROMANTIC GUITAR PSYCH BREAKS

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by [b
          Quote[/b] (Hadrian Elephant @ 29 May 2003,17:19)]Maybe I&#39;m just trying to find out that there is a limit at which people say &#39;ah fuck it, it&#39;s only a record&#39;.
          Without wanting to seem over-righteous, I&#39;d say that&#39;s from the start, then. As your signature puts it, &#39;play records, collect stamps&#39;. I just don&#39;t get the whole people spuffing huge amounts on records then only playing them on rare occasions, while wearing cotton gloves (or keeping LPs sealed - what&#39;s all that about then? - rather than listening to them). To be honest, I&#39;m sick of the way money corrupts absolutely everything, so that the idea of having a record to just PLAY starts to seem hopelessly quaint (Mr Trouble&#39;s comments on a guy he ripped off by trading a rare funk 45 for a boogaloo 45 demonstrate this: if the guy LIKED the boogaloo 45 better, only Mr Trouble&#39;s greed and gloating made it an unfair deal).

          I don&#39;t think ebay started it, but it has spread it like wildfire: the stupid prices things go for on there are affecting everything: everyone seems to be getting paranoid that someone else might get to make money off things, so they hike their prices, and things then start fetching more at auction...and so on. It&#39;s madness, and as the Trouble incident illustrates, it&#39;s basically ruining the whole thing for everyone, and soon only big-salary amateurs and pros will be able to afford anything: then watch the beats/breaks scenes ossify and die.

          It&#39;s as though records are now another &#39;investment opportunity&#39;, slowly but surely being priced out of the reach of ordinary music lovers, like estate agents hiking house prices in areas in anticipation of future rises in value... What do you do, though? I guess you try not to rip people off, while trying to avoid being ripped off yourself, as far as possible.

          Good luck to anyone playing the game, but for me, personally, it&#39;s about hearing music &amp; the question of whether it comes from a CD, reissue or OG copy is irrelevant. I understand that DJs and musicians using loops and samples have real professional reasons for seeking vinyl, and collectors and archivists have good reason to pay for certain pieces, too: one reason why I&#39;m happy to trade good vinyl with such people, if I can tape the track or two I want to keep off them first.

          But when it comes down to it, what I like about the people on this board is that they&#39;re out to play records, share discoveries and (as the worries about morality on this thread show) try to be decent human beings while doing it. A 50p boot-sale find is as likely to cause a stir as a mega-rare £300 library, or &#036;2000 funk 45, and that&#39;s what makes this place so damn cool.

          That to me shows people are motivated by love of music more than status, cash and all the other nonsense out there. Question is, would you knowingly trade a record you never play for one worth a fraction of the amount you&#39;re going to love &amp; play to within an inch of its grooves (OK, bad measurement there, but you get the idea) if you knew the person you were trading with needed it, but didn&#39;t have much cash &amp; wasn&#39;t going to be punting it on ebay a week later?.

          In that situation, I guess, yes, &#39;fuck it, it&#39;s only a record&#39;.
          a giant steam-powered turntable in warwickshire plays six foot cement recordings of Prince Albert's speeches to the rejoicing populace

          Comment


          • #6
            Regarding anyone selling anything;

            It&#39;s the seller&#39;s responsibility to know what is up with what he&#39;s selling.

            If he is happy with whatever he got for whatever, then he&#39;s happy. The end

            Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by [b
              Quote[/b] (wayne @ 29 May 2003,19:46)]
              Originally posted by [b
              Quote[/b] (Hadrian Elephant @ 29 May 2003,17:19)]Maybe I&#39;m just trying to find out that there is a limit at which people say &#39;ah fuck it, it&#39;s only a record&#39;.
              Without wanting to seem over-righteous, I&#39;d say that&#39;s from the start, then. As your signature puts it, &#39;play records, collect stamps&#39;. I just don&#39;t get the whole people spuffing huge amounts on records then only playing them on rare occasions, while wearing cotton gloves (or keeping LPs sealed - what&#39;s all that about then? - rather than listening to them). To be honest, I&#39;m sick of the way money corrupts absolutely everything, so that the idea of having a record to just PLAY starts to seem hopelessly quaint (Mr Trouble&#39;s comments on a guy he ripped off by trading a rare funk 45 for a boogaloo 45 demonstrate this: if the guy LIKED the boogaloo 45 better, only Mr Trouble&#39;s greed and gloating made it an unfair deal).

              I don&#39;t think ebay started it, but it has spread it like wildfire: the stupid prices things go for on there are affecting everything: everyone seems to be getting paranoid that someone else might get to make money off things, so they hike their prices, and things then start fetching more at auction...and so on. It&#39;s madness, and as the Trouble incident illustrates, it&#39;s basically ruining the whole thing for everyone, and soon only big-salary amateurs and pros will be able to afford anything: then watch the beats/breaks scenes ossify and die.

              It&#39;s as though records are now another &#39;investment opportunity&#39;, slowly but surely being priced out of the reach of ordinary music lovers, like estate agents hiking house prices in areas in anticipation of future rises in value... What do you do, though? I guess you try not to rip people off, while trying to avoid being ripped off yourself, as far as possible.

              Good luck to anyone playing the game, but for me, personally, it&#39;s about hearing music &amp; the question of whether it comes from a CD, reissue or OG copy is irrelevant. I understand that DJs and musicians using loops and samples have real professional reasons for seeking vinyl, and collectors and archivists have good reason to pay for certain pieces, too: one reason why I&#39;m happy to trade good vinyl with such people, if I can tape the track or two I want to keep off them first.

              But when it comes down to it, what I like about the people on this board is that they&#39;re out to play records, share discoveries and (as the worries about morality on this thread show) try to be decent human beings while doing it. A 50p boot-sale find is as likely to cause a stir as a mega-rare £300 library, or &#036;2000 funk 45, and that&#39;s what makes this place so damn cool.

              That to me shows people are motivated by love of music more than status, cash and all the other nonsense out there. Question is, would you knowingly trade a record you never play for one worth a fraction of the amount you&#39;re going to love &amp; play to within an inch of its grooves (OK, bad measurement there, but you get the idea) if you knew the person you were trading with needed it, but didn&#39;t have much cash &amp; wasn&#39;t going to be punting it on ebay a week later?.

              In that situation, I guess, yes, &#39;fuck it, it&#39;s only a record&#39;.
              Pertinently put, Wayne.
              http://www.djhistory.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by [b
                Quote[/b] (wayne @ 29 May 2003,19:46)]That to me shows people are motivated by love of music more than status, cash and all the other nonsense out there. Question is, would you knowingly trade a record you never play for one worth a fraction of the amount you&#39;re going to love &amp; play to within an inch of its grooves (OK, bad measurement there, but you get the idea) if you knew the person you were trading with needed it, but didn&#39;t have much cash &amp; wasn&#39;t going to be punting it on ebay a week later?.

                In that situation, I guess, yes, &#39;fuck it, it&#39;s only a record&#39;.
                I must admit that I have given away many records that I knew to be worth money as I knew they&#39;d be treasured more by the by the people I passed them onto than by myself and if I find a record for a £1 then passing it on is no great loss even if I could get £100 for it on ebay. If I never listen to it or I&#39;ve already got a copy then its not worth £100 to me. I&#39;d rather any good records I find go to a good home even if it actually ends up costing me a couple of quid to pass them on. Records are meant to be listened to and to be honest anything of any worth is probably better off outwith my clumsy grasp.

                Colin
                http://www.myspace.com/colinmillar

                Comment


                • #9
                  I must say I&#39;m heartened by the answers here.

                  To me, family and friends come before records every time.

                  Mind you, my Girlfriend would choke on her cuppa if she read that&#33;

                  She&#39;d probably remind me of the time I was meant to meet her one afternoon, but spent 10 hours in a dealers basement instead when he was having a £1 a record sale.......

                  I&#39;m glad you approve of my signature Wayne, but I have to admit I cribbed it off a guy who posts on the deephousepage board. I just loved the sentiment, I hope he doesn&#39;t mind.
                  He also contributed songs for the Jim Henson movie vehicle 'Muppets From Space'.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by [b
                    Quote[/b] (wayne @ 29 May 2003,19:46)]would you knowingly trade a record you never play for one worth a fraction of the amount you&#39;re going to love &amp; play to within an inch of its grooves (OK, bad measurement there, but you get the idea) if you knew the person you were trading with needed it, but didn&#39;t have much cash &amp; wasn&#39;t going to be punting it on ebay a week later?.
                    YES &#33; of course and i would and imagine/hope that all fellow Vultures would too without a doubt, like u said wayne it&#39;s about the music not the value of the plastic.
                    SECRET RUSSIAN ROMANTIC GUITAR PSYCH BREAKS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Record collecting is no mere hobby, no leisurely innocuos diversion. It&#39;s a feverish passion, bordering on dementia, driving those under its influence to irrational, compulsive and sometimes fanatcial extremes

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My Dad&#39;s a stamp collector, or &quot;postal historian&quot; as he would claim - it is not a pursuit worth encouraging.

                        Though thats the literal reading - the play yer feckin&#39; records or don&#39;t thing is more than fair enough.

                        I kinda reckon its a win some lose some game and as long as it stays reasonably on balance don&#39;t fret about the one that got away. There will always be one that got away.

                        Mark
                        Enthusiastic vagueness passes for scholarship in the twilight world of the disc-jockey.

                        John Peel

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by [b
                          Quote[/b] (Colin Hero @ 29 May 2003,20:51)]I must admit that I have given away many records that I knew to be worth money as I knew they&#39;d be treasured more by the by the people I passed them onto than by myself and if I find a record for a £1 then passing it on is no great loss even if I could get £100 for it on ebay. If I never listen to it or I&#39;ve already got a copy then its not worth £100 to me. I&#39;d rather any good records I find go to a good home even if it actually ends up costing me a couple of quid to pass them on. Records are meant to be listened to and to be honest anything of any worth is probably better off outwith my clumsy grasp.

                          Colin
                          Cheers Colin&#33; Your generosity - and the rekkids - are much appreciated (in case that wasn&#39;t obvious ).
                          You freeking scientologists are all the same, quible, dribble and then demand ice creams. Ohhhhhhhhhhh.

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