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PVC sleeves damage vinyl?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Expiry2011 View Post
    Exactly which sleeves are made from PVC?
    Are the hard edged ones PVC or are the softer ones PVC? Or is it more complicated than that?
    the hard, clear ones with sharp edges are PVC = bad
    the soft less clear ones are polythene, I think = OK
    the crystal clear thin sort of brittle ones, like the resealable ones or the japanese type resealable ones, are polyethylene (again, I think) = OK
    the really good ones, sort of harder but still really clear, are Mylar, but these cost a bomb

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    • #17
      I purged my entire collection of PVC sleeves years ago when there was a big thread on this.
      You should too.
      I have also seen records ruined by this stuff, it is very real.
      Outer sleeves can get to the record itself, this may be dependent on thickness of cover, etc. but I wouldn't risk it.

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      • #18
        found this out the hard way a few years ago with some 45s I had 'naked' in one of those record wallets from the 60s or 70s. The sort with the stiffer plastic. Fortunately nothing $$ was affected, but I've been wary ever since.
        "THIS IS A FINE TAPE AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF YESTERYEAR WHEN THE MUSIC WORLD WAS GOOD AND NOT FOULED UP BY THE LONG HAIR SCURVES WHO JUST BEAT WILDLY ON ANYTHING AND COME UP WITH A LOT OF STUPID NOISE THat only damnfools and liars say they like it"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Plainstone View Post
          It causes a whooshing noise on the vinyl as well as the visible damage
          No problem with Hawkwind / Spacerock type LPs then, in fact it could be seen as a plus point
          MUSHRUMPS Daily party-prog MP3 blog

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          • #20
            Prompted partly by this thread, earlier today I went thru my 45s and discovered one in a rogue PVC sleeve (placed over its own paper sleeve too). There were definite slight but noticeable signs of the dreaded white sheen, so beware: obviously the chemical leeching does pass through paper. Fortunately the record was only 'captain Krennan' by Kenny Everett and Mike Vickers!

            I also pulled out 6 or so picture discs I picked up about 2 years ago at a boot fair. They were all in the same type of transparent sleeve, (quite flexible and nowhere near as thick as the ones mentioned above). They looked like they'd been that way since manufacture (the seller had multiple copies of each, so some kind of overstock seemed likely). Only one record had the hissing noise. The rest played fine. Whether that odd one was just knackered, mispressed or simply a bit older than the rest I don't know, but I've taken them all out of those sleeves. Maybe I was lucky and got there in time.

            I have had similar problems with vintage tape and record players, especially portable or semi portables. There are some where the mains lead has been wrapped around the unit and over time, it has literally 'eaten' into the hard plastic case. Other times the cable was resting on the plastic platter and same scenario. I even had one recently which had been stored with a single on the turntable and the mains lead on top of that, the record has clear indentations surrounded by the dreaded white mist - all where the cable lay. The explanation given by a scientifically-minded mate was that plasticizer (or other compounds/additives) in the cable had migrated and reacted with the nearby plastics. So it seems you have to beware of storing different types of plastic in close proximity.
            "THIS IS A FINE TAPE AND BRINGS BACK MEMORIES OF YESTERYEAR WHEN THE MUSIC WORLD WAS GOOD AND NOT FOULED UP BY THE LONG HAIR SCURVES WHO JUST BEAT WILDLY ON ANYTHING AND COME UP WITH A LOT OF STUPID NOISE THat only damnfools and liars say they like it"

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            • #21
              So how can I tell the difference between PVC and polythene, ive got a lot of records from japan that arrived in plastic storage sleeves which is what im using, but i dont know if they're PVC.|

              Quote from vinyl engine forum "Given that PVC was the only choice for many, many years and that millions of records were stored in them with no trouble right across the Northern hemisphere, we might consider it a location/environment specific issue. High temp, high humidity and thermal cycling being causal factors."

              So am I safe to store records in PVC sleeves being in Liverpool where its always windy and not so humid.

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              • #22
                PVC's less floppy and shinier, quite often has a sharp or crimped edge. I don't think i've seen any Mylars.
                MUSHRUMPS Daily party-prog MP3 blog

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by sermad View Post
                  Hi guys,

                  Has anyone discussed this before? I was researching buying new (outer) sleeves and kicked up this article -

                  http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable...p?f=53&t=43623

                  Quite a few people commenting they have had problems with PVC (outer) sleeves. Anyone have? A tonne of my records are in storage in PVC back in London so I'm a bit worried now.

                  cheers
                  There is a long thread on this subject on the Psychedelica forum. My occupation was R&D in a plastics recycling company. I studied much in the plastics industry and I am well versed in all things plastics, so here is the story with this matter. The ones that cause the problems are PVC (Polyvinylchloride) outer sleeves. They are prone to what is called "polymer transfer" which happens through the microscopic pores in the cardboard sleeve and paper and plastic inner sleeves, esp when under pressure in a box of records and when hot in summer etc.. The other mainstream one is LDPE or Low Density Polyethelyne. Better but not 100% foolproof. I use them. My advice is to get rid of any PVC outersleeves and stick with LDPE. If you can only find HDPE (High Density polyethelyne) sleeves, then get those. Equally important, is if you have expensive records and want to sleep well at night with no worries, put the disc in a paper inner sleeve. I don;t have any rare lp's in plastic inners. Seen the result of white swirl and milkyness and that was scary. Take off 50% of the value, at least.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jb stanislas View Post
                    There is a long thread on this subject on the Psychedelica forum. My occupation was R&D in a plastics recycling company. I studied much in the plastics industry and I am well versed in all things plastics, so here is the story with this matter. The ones that cause the problems are PVC (Polyvinylchloride) outer sleeves. They are prone to what is called "polymer transfer" which happens through the microscopic pores in the cardboard sleeve and paper and plastic inner sleeves, esp when under pressure in a box of records and when hot in summer etc.. The other mainstream one is LDPE or Low Density Polyethelyne. Better but not 100% foolproof. I use them. My advice is to get rid of any PVC outersleeves and stick with LDPE. If you can only find HDPE (High Density polyethelyne) sleeves, then get those. Equally important, is if you have expensive records and want to sleep well at night with no worries, put the disc in a paper inner sleeve. I don;t have any rare lp's in plastic inners. Seen the result of white swirl and milkyness and that was scary. Take off 50% of the value, at least.
                    Thanks JB, appreciate it.

                    Just a side note though: I have a lot of Japanese LP's, late 60's and 70's, stored in plastic inners, I think they are polythene, but the records are all in fine condition, im guessing they have been stored in these inners for the past 20 years or so, so these ones are fine I guess?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by stylesforfree View Post
                      Thanks JB, appreciate it.

                      Just a side note though: I have a lot of Japanese LP's, late 60's and 70's, stored in plastic inners, I think they are polythene, but the records are all in fine condition, im guessing they have been stored in these inners for the past 20 years or so, so these ones are fine I guess?
                      You're welcome.

                      Polymer transfer happens. Nobody yet understands why this is not uniform, insofar as, sometimes all the bad storage choices with PVC outers will not affect the vinyl disc. Not an exact science. They say, maybe something to do with average temperatures over the time period but my guess is that if stored from brand new with those bad choices, there was little or no air inside the plastic inner from a semi-vacuum created by static when first packed and air is a factor. Once disc is removed and put back in, the process of haze to the disc can start. More than likely, if you don;t protect them with LDPE outers and paper inners, then you will have the damage, so despite the Japanese lp's being OK, I would suggest re-storing them like I wrote above. The irony is, if you take them out and check them to see about hazing, you will start the process of hazing right then, if there was none to start with.
                      btw...I cannot recall EVER seeing a US lp from the 60-70's with the milky haze damage. Only Australian ones which had pastic innners and some UK ones with polylined inners. The US lp's, 99% had paper inners. Moisture gets in and paper allows it to get out through the pores. Plastic inners don;t. Moisture gets trapped and trouble starts. Inners are probably > 50% of the problem.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jb stanislas View Post
                        More than likely, if you don;t protect them with LDPE outers and paper inners, then you will have the damage, so despite the Japanese lp's being OK, I would suggest re-storing them like I wrote above. The irony is, if you take them out and check them to see about hazing, you will start the process of hazing right then, if there was none to start with
                        Weird, the LP's are all fine, still shiny and sounding crisp, none of them were sealed new when I bought them, and they had all been played....I would think having been stored in Tokyo for most of their life where it is fairly humid and hot I would think that they would have been more susceptible to this ill effect and it would have arisen already so I am guessing that this effect you mentioned takes decades to really cause any negative impact on the audio quality of the vinyl.

                        I have read mixed feelings on paper inners and have spoke to a few people who say they can leave particles on the vinyl and scratch them, ive got soviet records from the late 60's that have been stored in plastic inners too and arent of the milky swirling effect but I take your word for it.

                        I see that mobile fidelity and nagaoka sell plastic inners which are both constructed of a paper layer sandwiched between two sheets of high-density polyethylene with a translucent HDPE front.

                        Funny though, how people have experiences of such varying degrees of problems with vinyl coming into contact with plastic sleeves and plastic inners. As I have had records stored in PVC outer sleeves for a while which havnt been effected.

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