All in a morning's work.......

[La-Soul-Fiend]

Just a few juicey joints from an early bird strike at a run of west London charities:

Peddlers - Three for All [LP] Phillips - '70.

Oscar Peterson - [EP] Verve - '62.
Modern Jazz Qrt - Live at the Six Seven Club [EP] CBS - '65.
St. Paul's Boys Choir - Let it Be Mean - '81.
Deniece Williams - Free - UK ? Label missing

Not a bad batch for £3.

I know it sounds mean, but has anybody noticed the prices creeping skyward lately in your fave charitiy? Anybody, that is, except Llmod1 who seems to possess an almost supernatural luck in the thrift store. A local-ish Oxfam has recently got a few decent things in stock but have discovered the Record Collector guide too and we now have records at £15 in there! My, how the world has changed

[son of stan]

Quote[/b] (La-Soul-Fiend @ 02 June 2003,12:29)]I know it sounds mean, but has anybody noticed the prices creeping skyward lately in your fave charitiy? Anybody, that is, except Llmod1 who seems to possess an almost supernatural luck in the thrift store. A local-ish Oxfam has recently got a few decent things in stock but have discovered the Record Collector guide too and we now have records at £15 in there! My, how the world has changed  

Don't get me started on this one...I've noticed this in some of my favourite haunts for some time. I think its a shocking abuse of good will - they get this stuff brought to them for nothing, not like a dealer who has to look for, pay for, and then make a living out of it.

Fortunately most aren't aware of the dreaded book and failing to have grasped the link between rarity and value they tend to price up stuff they've heard of.... Bad news then for the tardy Dire Straits fan still after the elusive "Brothers in Arms"

Most that have the book have obviously never bothered to read the bit about condition. I once saw a Prince Buster LP that looked like it had been in a particularly damp outbuilding for the last 35 years, half the cover was missing and the record itself appeared unplayable. They wanted £80 for it.

[chrisvulture]

in the last copy of the RC mag i saw there was an advert for Oxfam's 'great new record shops'? huh??? excuse me for being underwealmed. what gets me most about their latest branding exorsize is that even the mantovani is stickered up at 2 quid a go. not that i'd be tempted personally, but there are a few old duffers who would for 50p, but no way on earth for 2 quid...several times while chatting to folk rummaging round oxfam in days past, i found out these people were carers, just looking for a few cheap records of any sort to help pass the day of whoever it was they were looking after...i'd say these type of sales just dont happen now, and thats really sad...

[sermad]

Totally agree - Ive noticed charities stickering everything £1-£2 minimum, having the rc guide in the shop and pricing up everything the Beatles did for 200 sheets.

Dont get me wrong I obviously want to give monies to charity - but how many times have you bought a scoopfull of stuff just cost it was 25-50p a pop? shed loads I bet!! Now its all a quid plus I tend to get pissed off and leave with nowt - Not even a quid spent. This is clearly going to have a knock on effect - creating mountains of vinyl (like there isn't already) and charities losing cash thus probably putting up prices more to counter-act this.

It really gets on my wick when I see a booked item for sale in these places - Exactly as stan said - They get it for nowt and normally the dog has eaten its dinner off it - yet they still charge mint prices. Ive tried pleading with the little old dear behind the counter but they never budge.

I really fancy writing a letter to Oxfam spelling this out.

[La-Soul-Fiend]

Kids, I aint talking about £2.00 joints here, they have mad prices in my local Oxfam, I mean top, top dollar! But they still dont know the deal with the lesser known stuff, like anything from Europe. That is when it shows.

Last week I scooped up the Biddhu Orchestra LP with some pretty decent [disco-ish] grooves on it for £1.00

I also nabbed a truly barking prog-beat head nodder supremo for another squid cos it was Polish.

But let's be honest here, there still are crazy bargains to be had but it is slightly worrying the way the whole deal is going, I mean I just think this is gonna severely marginalize the type of punter who delves into these stores, leaving only the daft
the work-shy
and the most savage beast on the charity tundra: the vinyl uber-nerd

[Mr Divine]

This is the exact reason I volunteered in the local Oxfam music shop - it was embarassing seeing knackered 80s re-issues getting priced up as mint 60s originals. I think charity shops have every right to price items fairly and receive some decent money for what has been donated to try to raise some money for a good cause...

A lot of the records getting donated get binned if they're knackered, or make their way to other charity shops if they aren't worth charging a couple of quid for...

There's also the whole RC bible debate, but I'd imagine most diggers on this board are looking for stuff that's either not in the book. OR would be happy to pay the prices quoted - Christine Harwood Lp for £40? Err, yes please... anyone???

[Matt Hero]

...you are probably all *really* bored with my opinions on this subject by now, but for one last time....

I helped out last year setting up the conversion of an Oxfam shop into an Oxfam Music shop, and spent a couple of days with the bloke employed by Oxfam to oversee these transformations.

Basically he doesn't just want to see Oxfam shops sell music, or start to check prices and then throw the items in crates under the book shelves, he wants the shops to take music *seriously*. Make them into decent second hand music shops that just happened to be run by Oxfam.

There are problems with this of course. Paid staff are few and far between when compared to volunteers, and within those paid staff, there are very few music 'specialists'. The volunteers don't have the skills to grade and price without training and that take a great deal of time to organise and a deal of cash to execute.

Where it is done right it works well, certainly when I pop into my local Oxfam music store it is busy and well organised. Pricing is well handled and competative, and this was also true of my visit to another of the specialist stores in Edinburgh. Sure there are bargains to be found (eh LDJB &#33, but that is true of all record shops if your knowledge is deeper than that of the staff.

The real problem is this though. There is real competition between the shops to get the best turnover, as those shops who do best, are most likely to be able to employ full time staff and maybe even refits. Word gets around that this shop or that shop is doing great turnover on music, and all of a sudden shops make a poorly executed attempt to do it unaided. Hence the fact that we all see the sort of things mentioned in this thread, which causes all sorts of problems.

On the plus side, check what Oxfam have managed to do with books. Their specialist book stores have been established for a good while and with that maturity has come (from the example of a shop where I also used to work) a knowledgable staff of volenteers, stock handled, graded and priced with care and consideration and as a result better donations and donations to Oxfam's good causes. With a bit of luck and time hopefully their music 'experiment' will mature with the same success.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound like a lecture... really it wasn't

[sermad]

Heres a moral play for people who volunteer for oxfams.

If a gentle rain came into the store would you put it out at its correct price or pay something like £20 and keep it.

Cor thats nasty  

ps Im trying to do as little work as possible today so lets have a lively debate!

[chrisvulture]

what's the 'right' price tho'...according to the RC guide, not even a tenner...does that mean the ebay price is the 'right' price...if so, then heaven help us all!!!

Matt, you got the contact details of your Oxfam bloke? Maybe a little e-petition is in order!!!!

I was in my local record shop the other week when this chap came representing a chain of charidee shops that will remain nameless. he offered the dude in the shop a set price on several thousand records he had...the phrase 'maximisation of assets' was used...i guess that means charidees are chiefly interested in small numbers of large donations/transactions, rather than having a high footfall in the shops and items that the least well-off amongst us can buy...

[TOWNY]

Quote[/b] (sermad @ 02 June 2003,14:17)]Heres a moral play for people who volunteer for oxfams.

If a gentle rain came into the store would you put it out at its correct price or pay something like £20 and keep it.

Cor thats nasty  

ps Im trying to do as little work as possible today so lets have a lively debate!

I'd scratch the Bastard and put it out for a quid and set up a web cam live to the VV board so we can watch the pant wetting and then the tears, heheheheh.

Only joking honestly.

I'd pay the £20 i'm afraid to say. Have the Vultures here who haved worked/volunteered at charity shops done this with a view to catching vinyl before it goes out in the bins though ?

[Rich Hero]

Come on Matt what's the answer. As far as I understand it, that could never happen, because whoever wants to buy stock has to have it priced by another worker in the store. So Matt would cop a bargain whilst retaining his integrity.

The petition idea is good. The gripes about charity's prices crop up regularly (I'm driven to moaning about as much as the next Vulture) and writing to the charities would be a far more constructive reaction. Round my neck of the woods it seems that once Barnados hiked their prices every other charity followed suit.

[Matt Hero]

Quote[/b] (Rich Hero @ 02 June 2003,15:40)]Come on Matt what's the answer. As far as I understand it, that could never happen, because whoever wants to buy stock has to have it priced by another worker in the store. So Matt would cop a bargain whilst retaining his integrity.

You're right Rich, at least that was the policy where *I* worked, I can't comments on how others stores work.

'Gentle Rain' would be a problem for most stores as an example, because just how many people out there know of it's 'unofficial' value ? I'd say there are maybe 2 or 3 people on my whole *city* who might know about it..... so what chance has a charity shop got ?

All the gear that I got while working as a voluenteer was copped out of 'new donation' bags, or far more scarily, from donations which were earmarked for 'rubbish' ie not to go on sale and be ultimately dumped. 'Rhythm & Crunch' came out of the latter pile I'm afraid to say....

On Rich's second point I can't see what point a petition has ? It might piss you off that the prices are getting higher (and it does me too btw), but on what basis do you complain ? Because you think charity shops owe your collection cheap records ? Treat them the same way you would any other shop. If you don't like the price, don't pay it..... and see if that makes a difference.

Chris, I had heard nothing more than rumours about some regions within Oxfam 'buying' in stock. Officially, this doesn't happen, but I don't see a specific problem with it. I don't see how that would effect foot fall ? Foot fall is key to virtually any retail business ! Large donations / collections were always preferred by us, as well as by dealers, because it would usually represent a better quality of condition, title and therefore, a better price.

While I was working, we had several really good collections come in for free from people, on the basis that they wanted them to go to charity, but didn't want them to be sold for buttons. They wanted their donation to be worth as much as could be raised by selling it. Charity shops owe that much to anybody that donates in my opinion.

[son of stan]

....Given what we're discussing, I'd like to suggest that a petition, or anything which will draw the more organised charities' attention to the existence of this website, is probably not a good idea. (The game would be well and truly up then wouldn't it?)

[Rich Hero]

I was just observing that a letter would be a more constructive reaction than a whinge (and there's no reason to link it to the VV). The benefits of a letter could be twofold...

1) It would allow us to vent a little frustration (not that I'm advocating a rant).

2) And just maybe, in a perfect world, the charities would question their practices. If their now making a bigger profit from pricing everything at £2 and up then fine. I'm sure none of us would complain about money going to good causes and they're in business after all, of course they don't *owe* anyone records. But I rarely visit the charities round here because the slim pickings aren't nearly enough to justify the back pain they'll guarantee (jeez, I sound like an old fart ). Maybe they're simply raising prices because they've seen other shops do it, without knowing what they're selling or providing decent quality control, racks, etc. (there certainly doesn't seem to be any sort of pricing consistency across the country for many charities). If they agreed that stock would turnover faster with suck-it-and-see prices then brilliant!  

I'll buy records regardless but it would be great if a little more of that money went to charity in the process. Not that I'm planning on drafting that letter any time soon...

[TOWNY]

It all depends on where you live i guess. In the N.E. the prices have actually gone down in the last few years imo, when i moved back up here there seemed to be a standard £1 on any LP in just about all of the shops. They now seem to have settled back down to 50p or often 25p. Oxfam seems to be £1 or £1.50 if they think its a bit better than average - with absolutely no logic of course. Same with booters - a lot of sellers now are just after 20p, 50p or £1 for 3 in fact if Sie and myself's experience yesterday was anything to go by, the hot weather has brought on the "you can have 'em all for £3" attitude - One fella yesterday was trying to persuade us to take about 50 LP's for free ! Unfortunately they were all shite.