Stark reality

[Benicio Del Toffo]

Picked up the Stones Throw reissue of the fabled Stark Reality LP yesterday. I'm a little underwhelmed really, I have to be honest.

I wondered what the other Vultures thought about this long-awaited set. It seems like there are certain records that are condemned by the concomitant hype to disappoint, Stark Reality and Gentle Rain being two glaring examples.

Now, I'm not criticising the reissue, cos they've made a right effort of it and it's brave of them to get the LP out there to the proles at last. I'd be interested to see how the reissue affects the price of the originals that turn up on the 'Bay. I'm sure there are still those who simply must have the original, rather than saving the £300 to spend on 30 other LPs (duh&#33. I mean, I got an original 'Cotton Comes To Harlem' at a boot on Sunday, probably ain't worth much more than the reissue - £12.99!

As a rule, how do reissues affect 'collector' prices? Are we glad to see them made available to plebs like us? I'm sure there are those 'trouble-some' individuals that have sat wanking off over their copies for years who must be gutted that mere mortals can have access to their prized possessions. But it's about letting folks hear the tunes isn't it?

Surely a nice, above board reissue of Gentle Rain is imminent? Then that one might start to lose some of it's unjustified aura. I think too many of these LPs have a lot less intrinsic aesthetic value than their prices can justify. Surely we all slavishly look for these because of the prices? Would anyone really be pissing themselves over Gentle Rain if it was only worth a fiver and you could find it in most charity shops?

Stark Reality is a fine record, no question, but I'm fucking glad I never paid more than £12.99 for the bugger!

Benicio Del Tight-arsed

[wayne]

Too true - though maybe a bit over-optimistic on the dampening of prices. Talked to a dealer a while ago who seemed convinced (& I guess he'd know) that reissues tended to reinforce or increase prices of OG copies rather than diminish them: guess there'll always be hardcore collectors out there who want to pay £600 for a first edition rather than a quid for the paperback, if you know what I mean.

Reissues are good, though, because it means the rest of us get to hear the music: doesn't bother me in the slightest that my Hanged Man is the Intoxica re-ish, my Champ is re-ish, my 'Movements' is re-ish, and my 'Spiral' is on a '20 Loungecore Favourites' CD I paid £2.99 for in Selectadisc...or that Gentle Rain is on a nice little cd-r courtesy of Mr Hopkinson (& I disagree there: I think GR is a pretty cool set).

Just like listening to them...and I'm as prone to getting excited at finding that elusive Lightning Red Party Guitar LP as scoring a rarity (partly, true, because I've rarely known the thing I found was rare and/or valuable when I found it). I'm kind of with a guy who once sold his copy of Vashti Bunyan on ebay, and said in his description that it was just too terrifying to play it anymore, so he'd bought himself a re-ish and offloaded the original before he scratched it.

Amen to that, I say...

[Gryph]

Couldn't agree more, I got an original a while ago via some trades and frankly felt a bit robbed.
Don't get me wrong it's a good record but way overhyped, spent most of its time in a box.
I'm much happier with the 20 or so records I bought as a result of selling it.

Having said that I'll probably pick up the reissue  

[ladyboygrimsby]

I've not heard either the Stark Reality or the Gentle Rain, but on the basis of the many other hyped records that go for a lot of money, I think it's hard not to feel deflated when you listen to them. I mean, what exactly *does* a £500 or £5,000 record sound like? Well, it sounds like all the other records you have except you paid a lot more for it.

The Holy Grail of disco - Family Tree by Family Tree - goes for a lot of money. I've never even seen it on 12-inch, in fact. It was re-issued on OST and while I thought, mmm, nice, it did nothing more for me and, frankly, wasn't even a patch on all the Odyssey 12-inches I have, none of which are worth more than five quid. That's the problem with these records: they should sound like they're worth a fortune, but sadly they don't.

The pleasure of looking for records comes from finding bargains in unlikely places. It seems to me that spending top dollar on a record on eBay is cheating a bit.

Mind you, I woudn't mind an OG of Gary Wilson's You Think You Really Know Me. Now, that's a fucking good record.

[Belson]

Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ 03 June 2003,16:57)]The Holy Grail of disco - Family Tree by Family Tree - goes for a lot of money.

I've got a copy on Ananda 45. Last one I saw for sale was £250.

True.

[ladyboygrimsby]

Quote[/b] (Belson @ 03 June 2003,17:01)]

Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ 03 June 2003,16:57)]The Holy Grail of disco - Family Tree by Family Tree - goes for a lot of money.

I've got a copy on Ananda 45. Last one I saw for sale was £250.

True.

Sean P's got the 45, and Danny Krivit's got the 12, but I've never met anyone else who owns either, though I suspect Norman Cook has it because he has so much money he probably owns everything in the world ever. The bastard.

[Nick Cope]

What really puzzles/annoys me about reissues of an entire album is the apparent need to make a different cover. Why is this? Does the label fear that keeping the old cover will make potential customers dismiss it as just an oldie? Even though it was reissued supposedly because of its collectable status, with an in-built demand, it's hardly chart-busting material after all... Or maybe it's because the original artwork was destroyed, though I'm sure cameras and scanners etc today can take care of that...

Take the reissue to the Godchild LP for example, God awful cover and they even showed a little image of the original artwork - just to piss you off! Maybe they wanted a new look to reflect the fact that it included some crummy remixes...

Is it ego? A desire to acknowledge that some cool dudes got it together to remaster and re-release something? It's a particular shame with 45s... Their label designs I find fasinating, and full of historical reference - the worst thing I've ever seen was that 45 reissue of the David Baptiste 45. Not only did they stick part 1 & 2 on the same side, to ensure absolute shite sound quality, but they made a label so pug ugly that I've shelved the thing and will never, ever play it - £4 write-off mate!

I suppose if you replicated the label design on a re-issue 45, the 'deep' collectors will start whinging and lord knows, no-one must ever trouble the gods.... is that bullshit a factor in all this bullshit? Am I raving? I dunno, I just believe that if you're gonna re-issue something you should do it properly - and that includes mastering from the session recording as opposed to masters if possible, finding unreleased alternative takes, if interesting... Interviews, pictures and, just importantly, original label and cover designs...

Stark Reality: An oddity in its own right, but ultimately a victim of hip hop chinese whispers in the playground... This record has an awesome original cover - so nutty. Your first thought is 'how did these stone hippies get anywhere near these kids?' Hilarious! Where is it?

As for Gentle Rain - I'd be surprised if that gets a re-issue, as it's only good for one track - though Sermad might disagree with me on that...!

[TOWNY]

Couldn't agree more Nick, i was just winging this weekend to someone about the lack of OG cover art on the Stark Reality reish, plain stoopid IMO.

[Hadrian Elephant]

Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ 03 June 2003,17:13)]

Quote[/b] (Belson @ 03 June 2003,17:01)]

Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ 03 June 2003,16:57)]The Holy Grail of disco - Family Tree by Family Tree - goes for a lot of money.

I've got a copy on Ananda 45. Last one I saw for sale was £250.

True.

Sean P's got the 45, and Danny Krivit's got the 12, but I've never met anyone else who owns either, though I suspect Norman Cook has it because he has so much money he probably owns everything in the world ever. The bastard.

I think the 45's a lot easier to get than the 12" - I got the 45 off Pete Haigh a couple of years ago for about 40 quid, but I've never seen the 12". Didn't Nick the Record have a few out of Breakbeat Lenny's collection?

That said although it is a great tune I must concur with LBG, it's not played as much as 'Don't Tell Me Tell Her, Native New Yorker and Going Back To My Roots' at my gaff, but thats probably a reflection on what a good group Odyssey were than what a mediocre record Family Tree is.

I've often heard Northern Soul refered to as 'a scene built on faliure' and therein lies the dichotomy of record collecting. The more you get into music, the more you seek out records you haven't heard before; but often the reason they are not heard is because they are not that good!

How many northern classics are as good as a number one Tamla Motown single? Or how about a deepfunk favourite that is better than a James Brown track?

[sermad]

With regards to original covers it comes down to rights. If you can't find the people that did it then you can't use the art. Maybe stark was the same?

You might say to hell with it - Im going to scan the OG but you could get bitten in the ass. Tough call.

From what I've heard of Stark - via the 2 - 7's that have been released - Well it threw me. I'll reserve judgement until I get a copy but to be honest I'm not expecting to be blown away.

As for moody...It is a good lp. Its very different musically to anything around at that time - It does get a bit flugel mad in places but theres more to it then 'lonely jelly' for sure.

I don't think it can ever be legally reissued now though. More news when I get it but its not looking hopeful.

[cell]

i agree on that stark reality, very underwhelming, intresting beats, but its hardly something thats gonna tear the house down


On the subject of mega rare lps i see mark res has DANSER'S INFERNO - CREATION ONE up with a min bid of 500 quid, about 470 quid too rich for my pickings, but whats the deal with this lp (never heard of it before)?

Also just just saw the first Cos lp go for mad money (200+) on e-bay, thats one rarity i wouldnt mind getting a hold of, sometimes the underground does come up with the gems

[Hadrian Elephant]

Quote[/b] (cell @ 03 June 2003,20:34)]On the subject of mega rare lps i see mark res has DANSER'S INFERNO - CREATION ONE up with a min bid of 500 quid, about 470 quid too rich for my pickings, but whats the deal with this lp (never heard of it before)?

Towny's got the Thimble issue so I'll let him tell you about it....

Towny? You there?

[Benicio Del Toffo]

Quote[/b] (cell @ 03 June 2003,20:34)]Also just just saw the first Cos lp go for mad money (200+) on e-bay, thats one rarity i wouldnt mind getting a hold of, sometimes the underground does come up with the gems

That damn Cos LP! Sermad tipped me that it had reappeared on the 'Bay.

I was bidding on one last month (same LP) and it went for about £70 if I remember rightly. My boy Jacob out of Copenhagen scored it.

I've only heard it once. Liked it a lot. But couldn't tell you how any of the tunes go now cos it was years ago and I don't get on with the owner any more!! Imagine me falling out with someone - well I never!

But that's about the only LP I actually make an effort to find now. Everything else can either turn up or not. I'm becoming fatalistic, with the emphasis on 'fat'.

Benicio Del Tubby

[Nick Cope]

Quote[/b] (cell @ 03 June 2003,20:34)]On the subject of mega rare lps i see mark res has DANSER'S INFERNO - CREATION ONE up with a min bid of 500 quid, about 470 quid too rich for my pickings, but whats the deal with this lp

it's tosh

[Colin Hero]

Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ 03 June 2003,17:13)]

Quote[/b] (Belson @ 03 June 2003,17:01)]

Quote[/b] (ladyboygrimsby @ 03 June 2003,16:57)]The Holy Grail of disco - Family Tree by Family Tree - goes for a lot of money.

I've got a copy on Ananda 45. Last one I saw for sale was £250.

True.

Sean P's got the 45, and Danny Krivit's got the 12, but I've never met anyone else who owns either, though I suspect Norman Cook has it because he has so much money he probably owns everything in the world ever. The bastard.

A friend of mine has a copy of Family Tree 12". Not only that she got got it from Mr Scruff for the princely sum of absolutely nothing when we djed with him a while back.

Colin