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A question for the VG+ collective re: when the object is more important than the listening?

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  • A question for the VG+ collective re: when the object is more important than the listening?







    I finally had the chance to buy an original Velvet Underground debut LP on Sat at the market. I've had an early 1970's US press forever which is knackered. So the dealer had what looked like a nice clean UK stereo for £120 (it's £200 in the latest price guide btw). Initially I wasn't going to bother as I'm trying to be more thrifty this year but I knew all I would do would be to complain to myself and everyone else in the coming weeks that I should have just bought it. It's a genre classic, you don't see it about and I'd rather spend good money on one LP than £120 on a load of shelf fillers.

    As you can see the sleeve is EX or VG+ if you're being conservative (or US grading) and the vinyl is visually the same. Played the first side and absolutely spot on, very little background noise and no clicks/pops etc. I flip it over and a minute into Heroin a click starts that then jumps. All in all it clicks around 10 times and jumps about 5 times. Not massive jumps but literally jumping into the next groove. It's only then I noticed the scratch (and only under bright light) running parallel with the grooves...the worst kind of scratch! Rest of the LP plays like the A side, trouble free.

    1) So, do I cut my losses and take it back to the dealer for my money back (which will be no problem).

    2) See if I can get some money off for the damage. I doubt this may happen because I'm pretty sure he'll be able to sell it to other local grippers, scratch or no scratch.

    3) Just ignore the damage and be grateful I've finally got a copy that plays great for the most part b/w file it and just continue listening to my CD!

    I'm guessing most will say don't be such a daft git and get your money back but I'm finding that pretty much every record I buy these days has condition issues, whether sold as NM or not. You have to pay absolute premium for proper NM copies and they're only online. I never spend £100 type money online because I've become so disillusioned with receiving overgraded records. Unfortunately it seems to be happening with most things I buy in the real world, even though most of the time visually they look OK. One from Utrecht has particularly pained me and cost me proper money so I'm on a downer with records in general at the moment.

    Anyway, sorry about the long ramble. Opinions appreciated.
    "Don't get involved in the f**kin' chat pages. It's just full of arseholes talkin' sh*te non-stop"

  • #2
    I agree with you about the spending £120 on one good LP rather than a similar amount on a bunch of records you'll probably want to sell on in a few years- and who wouldn't love a VU OG. For me a scratch is a no-no even on a cheap record. I don't mind a bit of crackle, a few clicks here and there- especially on a record like this where you ought to expect it- but I find if a record is scratched I just don't play it.; It's too jarring. Typical it should jump early in Heroin- if it were in Black Angels Death Song you might not notice! I guess the other problem is if you did keep it and then thought better of it you'd feel duty bound to mention the scratch to potential purchasers, and may be stuck with it. I'm thinking if you want to play it then return it. Maybe better to pay £200 for a record that's in good nick because the scratch may offend you every time you put the record on. However, unlike me you're an expert in this field- but one thing I've heard about you on this board is that you are careful about condition!
    "You don't want to kill the cash donkey"

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    • #3
      This is easy Nige - option 1.

      It doesn't play through... and from what you've said, won't, ever. Can you live with that? I doubt it... knowing you've spent all that money and then *still* listening to the CD? I couldn't spend £120 on a scartched record. Any scratched record...

      Finding a near mint canon classic is I imagine not easy as they get played alot. So Minty canon classics aren't going to loose their value much, unless they get damaged, or society falls apart. Hence the hefty price tag... You're in the realms of investing in vinyl at these prices.

      Did the dealer let you know there was a scratch or did he just let you think you were getting a bargin?

      Condition issues do my head in aswell... I don't mind paying proper money for a record in great condition, but I am mighty pissed off if it turns out to be graded wrong. If i have a doubt I don't do it.
      In ((( VISUAL ))) Stereo

      Eclectic Mud


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      • #4
        Take it back. You admit you can listen to the cd, and any resale value on this faulty copy is compromised. Also if you were prepared to pay £120 for this, it isn't much of a leap to pay extra for a clean copy.
        some times play g+ with back noise,some times vg , super psyché juju lpfront sleeve is very nice vg back vg , but the top corne left is eating buy rats, ask for picture

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        • #5
          You could keep it till you find a better one if you think you can get your money back later.

          Or look for a mint copy with the trashed sleeve.....

          An interesting question. Of course it cuts to the heart of much of what we do here.

          On the specific issue I played this album so much when I was about 16that I could just sing it all, last week I passed over a €12 copy of the RSD issue of the Scepter Acetate as I reckoned I wouldn't play it much.
          Enthusiastic vagueness passes for scholarship in the twilight world of the disc-jockey.

          John Peel

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          • #6
            Originally posted by someblokecalledfuz View Post
            Did the dealer let you know there was a scratch or did he just let you think you were getting a bargin?
            The dealer is as good as they come Fuz (D**e of course). He'd just bought the collection, more VU but reissues and other stuff you'd expect with someone of those tastes (kraut, punk etc). He'll have glanced at the LP and visually it looks fine. I have better eyesight than him and it looked fine so nothing dodgy going on there.

            As Shere Khan points out I'm fussy at the best of times with condition. I think the problem is I'm getting so used to buying records at the moment with clicks, jumps etc that it's becoming the norm so I'm almost convincing myself all records have issues and I'm just being overly fussy.

            Thanks for the wise words chaps. I'm gonna get my money back from the dealer.

            PS Just an extra 2 points. The only way I'm buying another copy of this is if I find it in the real world and this is the first original I've seen in 20+ years.

            I couldn't resell it online. I can't be dealing with the hassle of trying to sell a record online that jumps.
            "Don't get involved in the f**kin' chat pages. It's just full of arseholes talkin' sh*te non-stop"

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            • #7
              Just a scratch with produced 10 clicks - think about keeping it. (you'd probably get your money back - or close to it - if you ever needed to)
              A scratch that creates jumps - forget it - get the money back. It makes that side unplayable. And everytime you "give it another go" it will drive you up the wall.
              "Ridicule is nothing to be scared of"

              www.myspace.com/illustratedlondonnoise*********illustratedlondonnoise.blogspot.com

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              • #8
                Originally posted by someblokecalledfuz View Post
                This is easy Nige - option 1.
                As you know i'm with Fuz on this one.
                "Hangin' out with you two is like partying with Fugazi"

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                • #9
                  £120 is quite a bit money for a record with multiple skips - If it were me I'd probably take the record back to the dealer and try at least to negotiate a partial refund - if he agrees I'd keep it and take it to someone who's experienced in fixing the jumps (it can be done)..
                  The aural history of the sex life of a cosmic corn popper

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                  • #10
                    ...
                    The aural history of the sex life of a cosmic corn popper

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by blue burt View Post
                      £120 is quite a bit money for a record with multiple skips - If it were me I'd probably take the record back to the dealer and try at least to negotiate a partial refund - if he agrees I'd keep it and take it to someone who's experienced in fixing the jumps (it can be done)..
                      Jumps can sometimes be fixed, but those concentric scratches? They are just plain nasty, you've got no chance. They're also doubly annoying because you almost always never see them at the point of purchase, AND they only seem to pop up on records which otherwise look fine. In fact, I've never quite worked out how they even HAPPEN? It's not like you've dropped the needle, or accidentally dragged your nail over it. Or left it out its sleeve to get knacked...

                      Nige, you know you want a refund for this. There's no point buying records you know you just have to replace in the future. Unless they're cheap enough to do a "cut and shut". I nearly bought a copy of this which was a 60s UK record in a US peelable gatefold sleeve. Just felt something was not quite right about it, although many UK releases have US sleeves (Love on Elektra etc.) In fact, why are you bothering with a UK copy of this? It's the wrong sleeve and the sleeve is, err, pretty iconic to put it mildly...
                      Club stuff: www.facebook.com/DivineGlasgow

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                      • #12
                        Unlucky there Nige. I think you are doing the right thing returning it. You will still be looking to upgrade it in that condition. Think of it as £120 towards the keeper copy. Returning to the title of the thread, I have to agree with Mr Divine. Just as the 1st Pink Floyd lp has to be a UK press, so I think the 1st VU would have to be the US.Then again, maybe you just prefer UK releases? To me, it's like stretching a hand back through time and connecting to that initial time and place. Some may think this is complete bollocks, but it's just a personal view. I know the music is the same, but it possibly gets into the realms of lps as artifacts when you are dealing with such iconic titles. Which is why they command the price of course.
                        Everyone tear down your own little wall
                        That keeps you from being a part of it all
                        Because you've got to be one with the one and all
                        You've just got to be close to it all

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                        • #13
                          Thanks guys. You've all definitely helped me make up my mind...a refund it will be.

                          Yep Andy/Paul, as much as I like my UK presses the US original is the preferred one in this case. It was 8am on a windy winter morning with the market cancelled and D**e selling records from the boot of his car. I was the only idiot who'd turned up...I wanted a record for my efforts

                          As usual I spent too much and got a knackered record for my efforts. Glass half empty...who, me?
                          "Don't get involved in the f**kin' chat pages. It's just full of arseholes talkin' sh*te non-stop"

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                          • #14
                            How much is a record with a skip worth really? Apart from the cover, the record is pretty much worthless. I think about £30 would be a fair price

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                            • #15
                              I think a lot of dealers would still sell a VU original for a lot more than £30 even if they knew it had a skip. A mint stereo copy according to RRPG is now £200. I bet sellers at Utrecht would have at least 400 euro on one.

                              In other news I had a brief look at the dealers new RRPG. Those who still need a London pressing of Chubby Checker Chequered will be happy to know its dropped to £20...unbelievable!! A bizarre agenda exists for the compilers of that book which I still haven't sussed.
                              "Don't get involved in the f**kin' chat pages. It's just full of arseholes talkin' sh*te non-stop"

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