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  • Third Stream Recommendations

    So, Third Stream, that quicksandish place where jazz meets classical orchestral composition and both get sucked into the pit. Generally I find the crossovers where a composer is trying to shoehorn in a bit of jazz are less successful - Gunther Schuller's stuff, Martinu, Stravinsky, "Actions For Free Jazz Orchestra" etc. but I think there is lots of interesting and unique music that could fit under this heading.

    Here are some of the 'Third Stream' things I like as a kick off; what else should I be looking out for?

    Charles Mingus "The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady":


    Stan Kenton conducting The Los Angeles Neophonic Orchestra in Russ Garcia's "Adventure In Emotion":


    Bob Graettinger's compositions played by the Stan Kenton band:


    Jaroslav Jezek's Piano Concerto:


    Terje Rypdal's crossover efforts - can't find a video of "Whenever I Seem To Be Far Away" which may be the best example, so here's something from the same era:
    Last edited by Sonovox; 11-03-2015, 06:46 PM. Reason: gramma

  • #2
    Mingus would be the main thing I know, have heard and actually enjoyed.
    Enthusiastic vagueness passes for scholarship in the twilight world of the disc-jockey.

    John Peel

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    • #3
      Keep your eyes peeled for Andrew Hill 'One For One' - previously unreleased Blue Note sessions with a bit of fantastic string/cello action

      Back to Neuuuuuuuuuu!

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      • #4
        Thanks Mumbles, that looks good. I am very into string quartet sounds at the moment, anyone know of anything else on these lines? There's an MJQ album I think, but I've never been a big fan of theirs...

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        • #5
          My early reading on jazz put me off investigating Third Stream. The received view seemed to be that it was worthy, but that it didn’t work. I still find it difficult to shake off that prejudice. On the other hand, I am quite open to the idea that it is all part of a continuum, a rich tapestry etc. In that sense some of what I listen to seems like it ought to qualify.

          I suspect, though, that you are thinking a bit more narrowly than that. If I think about attempts to marry mainstream European classical music (and I acknowledge that my knowledge is scant here) with jazz, the best that I can suggest is Rogier Van Otterloo. The only track that I really like is “The Flattened Tenth” from “On the Move”.



          Thinking ahead, there are a couple of things that I might report back on. I just ordered Gary Burton - “Seven Songs for Quartet and Chamber Orchestra”. Available fairly cheaply. I am have recently been listening to Empirical - “Tabula Rasa”, having picked up the CD on the cheap. I’ve still not listened to it enough to digest it. But even at this stage I can say there are some stand-out moments on it.

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          • #6
            That Andrew Hill sounds promising!

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            • #7
              I´m not much into third stream, but this one (which I´ve posted before) has some lovely stuff on it. It´s mostly Gary Burton, really. with George smiling indulgently at his protegé in the background.

              Vardy.....¡¡¡PELIGRO!!!

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              • #8
                I'm sitting here in my living room with a copy of that LP, just given me by a Mr. Ian Townsend, right by me. On it goes next (after 'Around The World With Whistling Jack', which, for the only time I'm ever going to listen to it, I'm quite enjoying).
                Spirit Duplicator—collectable, charming, affordable... and also socially networked on FB / Twitter / Instagram.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by eine View Post
                  I'm sitting here in my living room with a copy of that LP, just given me by a Mr. Ian Townsend, right by me. On it goes next (after 'Around The World With Whistling Jack', which, for the only time I'm ever going to listen to it, I'm quite enjoying).
                  Side 2 is much better than Side 1
                  Vardy.....¡¡¡PELIGRO!!!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Funktionnaire View Post
                    My early reading on jazz put me off investigating Third Stream. The received view seemed to be that it was worthy, but that it didn’t work. I still find it difficult to shake off that prejudice. On the other hand, I am quite open to the idea that it is all part of a continuum, a rich tapestry etc. In that sense some of what I listen to seems like it ought to qualify.

                    I suspect, though, that you are thinking a bit more narrowly than that.
                    I think there is a lot of 'stiff' and overly worthy music that would get the 'Third Stream' tag, but I reckon there's probably a rich seam of music out there where the different genres have crashed or melted into each other with awesome results. I'm definitely not aiming narrow on this... so thanks for the recommendations. The Gary Burton sounds interesting... I suspect there's a lot of interesting stuff tucked away on ECM but it's hard to know which ones to pick out.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by babycart View Post
                      Cheers, I have been spinning George's "Night Mist" recently - which doesn't really fit in this thread - but intrigued by this, looks like it stretches out from classical fugue playing. Spotted another one called "Old Gold And Ivory" recently where he tackles classical tunes: I didn't pick that up, but maybe I should have.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sonovox View Post
                        I think there is a lot of 'stiff' and overly worthy music that would get the 'Third Stream' tag, but I reckon there's probably a rich seam of music out there where the different genres have crashed or melted into each other with awesome results. I'm definitely not aiming narrow on this... so thanks for the recommendations. The Gary Burton sounds interesting... I suspect there's a lot of interesting stuff tucked away on ECM but it's hard to know which ones to pick out.
                        Does this fit the bill? Not stiff at all.

                        https://youtu.be/slIirAgq8dk

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SirSlim View Post
                          Does this fit the bill? Not stiff at all.

                          https://youtu.be/slIirAgq8dk
                          That's some outstanding jazz, and I think the cello section works really well there - but I think it's cellos playing jazz rather than a collision of genres.

                          On the want list now though

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sonovox View Post
                            That's some outstanding jazz, and I think the cello section works really well there - but I think it's cellos playing jazz rather than a collision of genres.

                            On the want list now though


                            Have you seen this?

                            "In 1981, Gunther Schuller offered a list of "What Third Stream is not":

                            It is not jazz with strings.
                            It is not jazz played on 'classical' instruments.
                            It is not classical music played by jazz players.
                            It is not inserting a bit of Ravel or Schoenberg between be-bop changes—nor the reverse.
                            It is not jazz in fugal form.
                            It is not a fugue played by jazz players.
                            It is not designed to do away with jazz or classical music; it is just another option amongst many for today’s creative musicians"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mumbles View Post
                              Keep your eyes peeled for Andrew Hill 'One For One' - previously unreleased Blue Note sessions with a bit of fantastic string/cello action

                              Originally posted by Sonovox View Post
                              Thanks Mumbles, that looks good. I am very into string quartet sounds at the moment, anyone know of anything else on these lines?
                              Originally posted by Funktionnaire View Post
                              That Andrew Hill sounds promising!
                              the Andrew Hill thing is very very good indeed. hypnotic and beguiling. double LP too, so plenty of stuff to wash over you.

                              and at times it's heavy on the Dilla Donuts tip, breakz fanz....

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