Boring Needle/Stylus question.

[amidar]

I posted this in the 'worn' thread but probably off topic so better on its own.

Having always bought vintage decks in the past and usually managed to replace like for like quite cheaply, I've owned a deck with and Ortofon cart on it with a '5E' stylus for the last year or so. I assume the cart is called an 'OM' has anyone got a list of cartridges that are compatible with this cart or recommendations. I'd prefer a genuine over a generic but don't mind going lower down in the range if its proven suitable by the forum users on here. Any links to lists etc would be cool.

eg: would something like this be compatible: http://www.juno.co.uk/products/ortof...rde/188332-01/ it looks the same but no mention of 'om' as a prefix.

Deck is a project essential 1 by the way (must be a later one as they originally came with an om3 stylus), yep mdf special but it does the job. Cheapest like for like seems to be 45 squid at Richer Sounds and of course even cheaper at that place in Blackpool 'get the needle' but they don't hide the fact they are all copies. Have also emailed 'Musonic' who seem legit, thought about emailing 'juno' but they are so big I didn't think I'd get a reply.

Don't know why they cant make these things simple, even though the manual lists some styluses it doesn't indicate whether they will fit what I have and multiple sites don't help.

Thanks in Advance.

[Sam]

Ah I replied to you in the 'worn' thread, so I'll repeat it here for others.

A genuine Ortofon 5e, cheapest I can find in the UK is £42.95 inc delivery from Audio Affair.

Generic, I'd try a company like Mantra - https://shop.mantra-audio.co.uk/acat...on_stylus.html - £21 inc VAT (not sure about delivery).

I have no experience of the generic ones, but Mantra the company have been going a long time so hopefully decent enough.

[bradx]

I'm wary of the generic stylii ... I believe some are cheap chinese knock-offs and the materials are suspect.
I use the same type as you ... I just bite the bullet and buy the £40 ones from Juno.

[amidar]

I'll post this as it was in reply to someone who had bought a generic on the other thread and couldn't hear much difference but did think there was a definite loss of quality:

Interesting 'get the needle' have them in for £17.95 delivered, I've got a job coming up that may free up some cash so I might do both for the hell of it. I'd never advise anyone to buy a brand new project anyway at least not at full price, second hand or ex demo best bet, mine cost 100 quid so thought it was a safe bet but I've never been enamoured with it they don't live up to their what hifi 5* rep but I guess they do track lightly. 2 things motor noise and belt squeak.

Maybe if it pays enough I'll look out for a better deck, I let a nice 'trio' slip through my fingers for 20 notes at a hospice shop the other month, like the dickhead I am sometimes. Got a lovely old 'garrard' housed in a 'fergurson' wooden cabinet from the 60's in another room with a generic needle (actually flips to play 78's). I think it sounds better than the project but I wouldn't play a new or expensive record on it as the arm and cart look like they weigh a ton and adjusting the weight on the arm aint exactly precise!

[amidar]

This all started as I'd left a record on forgotten about it then 2 days later noticed it was still spinning but around the paper inner, could have been happening for secs or over 24 hours. Its driving me mad convincing myself things aint sounding as they should and wondering if I'm damaging new records. Screw it I should either do both or bite the bullet and go genuine as said.

I'm wary of the generic stylii ... I believe some are cheap chinese knock-offs and the materials are suspect.
I use the same type as you ... I just bite the bullet and buy the £40 ones from Juno.

[bradx]

If you've got access to a microscope you can check whether a needle has been damaged. There's quite a good guide here http://www.vinylengine.com/examining-your-stylus.shtml
Many years ago, back in the early 80s, I used to borrow records from the Manchester Precinct Record Library. This was a pretty neat place with a ton of good records which you could borrow for a few days. I used to tape them. Anyway - they insisted you bought your stylus in and they would check it under a microscope. It's quite easy to see wear or chips etc... even to a layman.

[candiman]

I recently bought a new Ortofon 10 stylus from williamthakker on ebay. They purport to be genuine. It certainly looks genuine but who knows?
I think i'm happy with it. I sometimes think there is some harshness to female vocals and more trebly instruments that i have not heard before but not with all records I play which is odd. That just could be down to my ears or another component in the system (I have had some problems with cart connections in the past).
Having said that I played two early press Hunky Dory's for comparison the other day and was blown away by the quality of the sound.

As I understand it the 5E is the entry level (i.e. cheapest) stylus that fits the OM the other compatible Ortofons get progressively more expensive from there.

Thakker have a 5E for £27.99 with free postage http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ortofon-St...IAAOSwA4dWF6Ks

[candiman]

Prompted me to read some more threads on styli and OEM .v. Aftermarket. From this I think Thakker is Aftermarket, and therefore not strictly speaking genuine although they do seem to have a generally good reputation.

I did find this in a discussion (not on 5Es etc) which I think might describe what I have sometimes been experiencing since I have been using my new stylus(do I understand this? no not really!) :

"In my experience I've never found an aftermarket stylus that performs as well and sounds like the real OEM but I suppose like everything there may be rare exceptions, the JICO SAS?
After extensive objective measurement and testing - my own objective conclusion is NO categorically not.... the SAS is very good indeed, and does play at the upper end levels alongside the Shure V15III/IV/V - but when compared directly to a Shure V15VMR stylus, it is objectively not as good.
It has a higher tip mass, resulting in a lower resonant frequency, which in turn results in a rising top end - and a less flat frequency response - objectively this is a negative.
Subjectively, the rising top end can lead to a perception of a wider soundstage, more detail, etc... (and in the wrong system it may appear bright or even edgy/brittle) - so some people do prefer it. "

[SirSlim]

Simple equation - what's the most you've paid for a record?

That's at least what you should pay out for your cartridge/stylus!

[eclectiktronik]

I have an OM5E fitted to one of my decks. As is usual with elliptical styli, plenty of top end, but you hear every crackle or bit of groove wear there is. As a result it gets very little use. For day to day use I prefer spherical styli as most of my vinyl is secondhand and some of it is pretty 'well loved'. It just doesn't sound right on the ortofon. I also have a 1970's autochanger with ceramic cartridge, I suspect like your Ferguson, that also plays my 78s and singles especially sound fantastic on it - after all, that was the kit that 99% of people had when those discs came out, so I suspect may were produced with that reproduction in mind.

If you left the record rotating with the stylus in the run out inner groove, I would not worry at all about wear. Those tips will last thousands of hours, and even more so in a blank groove!

[amidar]

I trust your knowledge eclectiktronik thanks for the reply, glad you agree sonically on the om5e they do pick up crackle it lessens on mono records using the mono button on my amp, It had jumped out of the outer groove though and was spinning on the paper label itself (the cabinet it sits on is on castors so must have taken a knock at some point). I could see no ring wear on the paper but unless it had been left for months they track so light I wouldn't expect to see any if at all. Its usually used everyday but one of those busy times where you get no time to listen to music ((other than in the car) prevented me from spinning any disks.

I have an OM5E fitted to one of my decks. As is usual with elliptical styli, plenty of top end, but you hear every crackle or bit of groove wear there is. As a result it gets very little use. For day to day use I prefer spherical styli as most of my vinyl is secondhand and some of it is pretty 'well loved'. It just doesn't sound right on the ortofon. I also have a 1970's autochanger with ceramic cartridge, I suspect like your Ferguson, that also plays my 78s and singles especially sound fantastic on it - after all, that was the kit that 99% of people had when those discs came out, so I suspect may were produced with that reproduction in mind.

If you left the record rotating with the stylus in the run out inner groove, I would not worry at all about wear. Those tips will last thousands of hours, and even more so in a blank groove!

[amidar]

Certainly seems a decent price and they are stating 'genuine'. Might be worth a punt, I'll have a good read of their feedback when I'm home later and do a bit more research. Did find out that Ortofon themselves even though they may fit do not recommend fitting anything other than the original stylus although they are probably covering themselves to a certain extent which is understandable.

I recently bought a new Ortofon 10 stylus from williamthakker on ebay. They purport to be genuine. It certainly looks genuine but who knows?
I think i'm happy with it. I sometimes think there is some harshness to female vocals and more trebly instruments that i have not heard before but not with all records I play which is odd. That just could be down to my ears or another component in the system (I have had some problems with cart connections in the past).
Having said that I played two early press Hunky Dory's for comparison the other day and was blown away by the quality of the sound.

As I understand it the 5E is the entry level (i.e. cheapest) stylus that fits the OM the other compatible Ortofons get progressively more expensive from there.

Thakker have a 5E for £27.99 with free postage http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ortofon-St...IAAOSwA4dWF6Ks

[eclectiktronik]

I trust your knowledge eclectiktronik, glad you agree sonically on the om5e they do pick up crackle it lessens on mono records using the mono button on my amp, It had jumped out of the outer groove though and was spinning on the paper label itself .

That's why I hate decks without auto-return! Used to ahve a Rotel like that, I always used to forget to turn the damn thing off.
Anyway, I would doubt much if any damage has been done. As you say they track so light (1.5g tops I seem to recall).... and it's only paper I suppose.

I have seen worse damage where the stylus had been dropped onto the mat, which had raised 'bumps' - bent the cantilever.

[spiritual jazz mags]

Apologies for latching on to this thread - but:

I am using Stanton d500al mkII styli which I need to replace on my 1210s. They don't seem to be available any more, as I can only find only cheap compatible versions for sale.

What are my options for a decent quality replacement?

[Col Wolfe]

Simple equation - what's the most you've paid for a record?

That's at least what you should pay out for your cartridge/stylus!

Saturday just gone, I saw a copy of "Cheatin' Kind" being played under a budget white-tipped Stanton500 complete with blu-tac x 2 two pence pieces.