Records

[Hadrian Elephant]

Is there a particular reason behind collecting records?

It strikes me as a very ilogical pursuit in these days of mp3's minidiscs and other such technical malarky.

Anyone hazzard a guess as to why we still do it?

[urko]

Good question, I know what my wife would say "cause your all sad bastards".... Does anyone else ever get that semi guilt feeling when your looking up at your racks trying to decide what to play and you don't fancy listening to anything? It usually happens to me after I've spanked money on e bay and I'm in the middle of mending the soles of the kids shoes    My old man has collected books and old postcards for years, a while back he said he feels nothing for them anymore and may just get rid. Now I can't see that happening to me, but as the years go by I can sort of see where he's coming from. I've strayed.....  As for record collecting, I think it's just an addiction like any other. The thrill of the chase is often better than the end result, some of which we will only spin a couple of times. With the modern stuff, cd's mp3's etc it's all accessible so you don't get the same buzz. I don't buy many cd's, but when I do I just can't seem to get excited about it. As has been said before e bay is taking some of the enjoyment out of it. We all use it to score stuff we've been after for ages etc, but it just ain't the same as finding it in the racks of your local emporium. That said least you get the disk. I think the issue of condition on the bay has been covered recently, I've had a few bad un's and some people just don't want to sort it out. The one guy I actually left a neg for, after he sent abusive mail, just left me one in reply. So I don't bother with neg anymore. Shit this post is getting really depressing    When I get in a.m I'm going to have to break out something ultra funky before I go to bed just to restore the faith  

Cheers
Urko

[wayne]

I do know where you're coming from, Urko - I go through phases of selling off chunks of my various collections (ie: books, cds, vinyl & what I can only describe as odd artifacts - tiki mugs, thriftstore paintings, paperweights etc) then phases of obsessively adding to them (not all at once, though). Partly it's to do with money - if I'm broke, I sell stuff off to tide me over - or work (sometimes I buy a heap of stuff while researching something or other, then sell all but my favourite 2 or 3 when I'm done) but there's also a nagging thing, I guess, about feeling that sometimes my posessions are starting to own me rather than vice versa: maybe I just want to show 'em who's boss or something equally neurotic...

As for records (as opposed to CDs/mp3s etc) it started for me (after a long lapse) when there was just stuff I wanted to hear that couldn't be had on other formats, and mp3s (unless I invest heavily in the technology) will always be inconvenient - can't be played off the computer (don't have the equipment to burn cd-r) and takes 20 minutes upwards to download a full track on dial up.

By and large, I'm not too fussed about whether something's on one format or another, but some things are only available on vinyl hence the collecting... Other things are cheaper on vinyl, too: an example are Francis Lai soundtracks, many of which come only as pricey Japanese imports on CD, but can be had for pence on vinyl... So it's a mix of all those things, really.

Now I think about it, in fact, it all seems more complicated than I thought when I started this reply...

As for ebay, I've not used it for anything other than looking up LPs I'm interested in to see what the covers look like...I don't like it, full stop, but that's just a personal preference. Sure, it makes scoring things easier (if more expensive?) but I kind of like the process of looking - all the rummaging, the picking up stuff I didn't know existed just because it looks interesting...that sort of thing. Goes back to childhood memories of going up into attics, or having the run of my uncle's garden shed as a kid after he gave up doing the markets, I guess: I just love rummaging through junk!

[wooly]

both urko and wayne here have said a lot. there's something about finding the stuff that just isn't on cd (old libraries or spoken word stuff, for example).

my wife was looking for a cd the other day - there were piles of them around the record player, a lot of them out of their sleeves etc - something that would never happen to my vinyl!!!

the vinyl seems to want to be looked after - today i found an old edmundo ros album in the charity for 50p, couple of scorching latin tracks on it... but it had no inner sleeve and the outer sleeve had come unstuck. the record was basically fine to play, so i stuck the sleeve back together and added an inner sleeve. it made me feel good to look after something like that. for me, that's one of the best things about buying old vinyl, apart from playing it.

it sounds better to my ears. that's a totally subjective statement, i know. i don't care for the old arguments about 16bit, 24bit digital clarity, analogue-to-digital converters that have a built-in bureau-de-change. analogue is interesting, it has movement and life about it. digital sound has never sat very well with my ears. i'm not saying i'm right - i just prefer it.

an album looks better on vinyl - it's bigger and more tactile. i can appreciate it more. so many people these days are obsessed with how small things can get, like the latest mobile phone is so much better than the last one because you need binoculars to see it. you know what i mean.

mp3 doesn't sound nice at all. even if it's done well, i can hear the squeaky artifacts all over it which is like nails down a chalkboard to me, it puts me on edge. it's great for portability etc, but i'd sooner have the vinyl.

[Hadrian Elephant]

Everytime I speak to my mates who have good soul collections they are always talking about the right time to sell up.

I think it's because the prices have gone bananas the last few years and everyone is looking at the return that they can get on them as opposed to what they bought them for.

One guy I spoke to compared his collection to stocks and shares. He was waiting for the peak and then was going to flog the lot.

Another sold some of his northern collection to John Anderson and got £11,000 for it.

Crazy...

I'm not sure that record collecting as we know it will continue. The local (now all cd) shop owner told me he was at a booter the other week with his family and his 13 year old Niece pointed at a stack of LP's and said "What are they?"

She'd never seen a record before. I'm sure she is not alone in her age group either.

The rise of DJ Culture (for want of a better word) may have extended the sell by date on vinyl by making it cool for some of the 18-25 year old bracket to buy decks and be budding Paul Oakenfolds, but I doubt the generation growing up now is going to think it's hip to pay money to see 40+ year old blokes (sorry Ladyboy! ) play records.

Or maybe I'm too cynical?

[urko]

You are right on the money Wooly, totally agree with all said. Feeling better about things already!

   

Cheers

Urko

[urko]

Quote[/b] (Hadrian Elephant @ 15 July 2003,01:46)]The local (now all cd) shop owner told me he was at a booter the other week with his family and his 13 year old Niece pointed at a stack of LP's and said "What are they?"

She'd never seen a record before. I'm sure she is not alone in her age group either.

One things for sure I bet any Vulture kids out there know a thing or two about records! Being a shift worker I had mine with me a lot when they were pre-school. Before they learnt to speak I would spend hours in the second hand record shops of south kent. Once they started talking and inadvertently "grassing" me up to wifey new tactics had to be employed. They soon learnt that keeping their traps shut earnt them a "reward" from the first sweet shop passed after leaving the emporium Wish it was that easy to bribe the blighters now    

TaTa
Urko

It's obsessive/compulsive behaviour

Collecting anything is, by simple definition

[pokester]

"Collecting is like eating peanuts, you just can't stop."

[emperor tomato ketchup]

I suppose collecting is the impulse, if you like music and have some records that you play then its a fairly obvious direction for the impulse to go. But if you've more than a few hundred then chances are you don’t play them all properly and then its into another arena. Definitely one to keep under control if you can.

[funky16corners]

Quote[/b] (Jack @ 15 July 2003,02:37)]It's obsessive/compulsive behaviour

Collecting anything is, by simple definition

It's far more complicated than that. If I were collecting pebbles of various sizes and piling them in my basement, THAT would be obsessive/compulsive. It's not just records that we collect, but music and the history associated with it. In a brilliant 7" record there's so much more there than the vinyl, paper and ink.
First and foremost (always) is the music.
As someone else said, it's also the fact that much of what I collect cannot be found on CD.

[MikeFree]

Quote[/b] (Hadrian Elephant @ 15 July 2003,01:46)]One guy I spoke to compared his collection to stocks and shares. He was waiting for the peak and then was going to flog the lot.

I like to think of records as a video store. When I buy a record, I want to hear it, learn it, love it. If I return it, I'm not totally troubled if I don't make back what I originally put in. Overall, I've come out way ahead, so the finances don't matter much.

I collect for the music, but if that were all, I'd just burn everything and have a nice compact collection. There's more than that. It's also taking a record out of the sleeve, checking for the track, putting it on the table, cueing it up...crackle, crackle...boom! There's something about the ritual of it all that feels more organic than collecting in other forms. I also do feel that analog just sounds better than digital. I really do think there is a difference in sound. I love flipping through records thinking what to play next. Covers trigger memories of so many things, where I found it, when I've played it, whom I've played it for, and from those memories, so many others. I don't think that if I were just going through a list on a computer I'd have that same feeling. Oh yeah, I downloaded that from XXX... Also just going out digging is amazing in itself, passing on all of these other titles until you find that one that you want. I've seen so many cities throughout the world just by digging, by throwing on a pair of kicks and walking. They really should have diggers' walking tours. This sounds mad hoaky, but it's true. It's really a personal thing.

[jammin]

Quote[/b] (wayne @ 15 July 2003,01:15)]As for ebay, I've not used it for anything other than looking up LPs I'm interested in to see what the covers look like...I don't like it, full stop, but that's just a personal preference. Sure, it makes scoring things easier (if more expensive?) but I kind of like the process of looking - all the rummaging, the picking up stuff I didn't know existed just because it looks interesting...that sort of thing. Goes back to childhood memories of going up into attics, or having the run of my uncle's garden shed as a kid after he gave up doing the markets, I guess: I just love rummaging through junk!

Ah man you took the words right outta my mouth

[MystDrF]

For me it's a whole bunch of stuff.
There's the memory of a place, a time, and atmosphere - Feb ruary '77 buying the Damned's first LP .
There's an element of expression of personality e.g. school friends remembered me as the one that used to turn up with Cabaret Voltaire , TG, early Human League records etc. at parties.
There's an element of satisfaction of knowing something as an 'expert' i.e. being able to look at at a pile of old tat and say that record is good, desirable, mad , unique, worth millions etc. it's being different from the crowd I guess.
There's a challenge in the randomness of coming across things which makes a routine trip up the high street different.
Personally my philosophy is one of not needing to own a record permanently so I'm happy to shift it on in the belief that I will come across it again , and most times you do!.
I also like the historical context , what made people laugh in the sixties? were the fifties really repressed? records give little windows into that, even if you only reinforce a personal bias one way or another.
Does any one else pick up those little 'record it yourself' discs that usual consist of two drunken girls giggling and saying 'what shall we say'?, bit like eavesdropping on other peoples lives - probably sad but good fun.
Unlike a number of folks on the board Ebay seems okay to me but I never buy 'cos the thrill of hunt is missing. Selling to pay for future vinyl adventure seems okay to me, again there's the satisfaction of converting personal knowledge to get a reward.
Over time you meet like minded souls so there may even be a social side, but I don't think it replaces real life.
Back to the pipe and slippers now

[wayne]

Quote[/b] (MystDrF @ 15 July 2003,19:44)]I also like the historical context , what made people laugh in the sixties? were the fifties really repressed? records give little windows into that, even if you only reinforce a personal bias one way or another

That's so right! I found a heap of old 60s Polish LPs once, & it was fascinating to get that glimpse into a whole world that was never communicated during the cold war years, & even now is only starting to emerge... and I love 50s comedy LPs, or finding those weird things that totally seem at odds with everything you think you know about a time! Definitely one of the attractions of vinyl is that it has more history than other formats, so records are more interesting/rewarding to collect than CDs in the same way that books are more interesting to get into than (say) computer games. It's not intrinsic to vinyl, I don't think because as other formats accumulate history, they'll take on some of the same complexity/depth etc...Cds have been around for, what, fifteen years or so? Records go back (if you count 78s) most of the 20th century, & in modern form to the 1940s...

As for the sound, a mate of mine (who is a sound engineer) once explained to me his theory that analogue recording contains sonic information that is outside the range of human hearing at the extremes, while digital excludes these - his theory is that though we don't miss the inaudible sounds, their loss has subtle effects on the way we hear what remains. I'm not explaining it very well, but his explanation involved drawing a bell-curve with long tail-offs on either side, then cutting it on either side of the bell itself - the bell being the bit included by digital, the tail-offs the inaudible frequencies that remain in analogue. Anyway, it may not be as subjective a question as is often made out, I gather...though I suppose he might've been talking out of his arse as well.

It sounded very persuasive at the time anyway.