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  • Mcdonald & giles

    Picked up the McDonald & Giles LP last week and there's an awesome track on there (Tomorrow's People (THe Children Of Today). Anybody know much about them? I know they left King Crimson and made this album, and I know Michael Giles is a drummer and that's it. The drumming on Tomorrow's People is super-tight and I was wondering what else he's played on...
    http://www.djhistory.com

  • #2
    What does the cover look like, LBG?

    Are they sitting outside a shack on the front sort of porch area looking kind of scruffy?

    I'm pretty sure I have this piece.

    BTW - allmusic.com has a bit of info on them, if you haven't checked already.

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    • #3
      Great record. You know about as much as me though. Apparently they had to rewrite some Crimson tunes after Michael Giles left cos they couldn't find anyone who could play his drum patterns!

      Doesn't the young lady on the front look like Caroline Aherne?!

      Been playing that 'Tomorrow's People' for a few years now, nice drums, goes big within the 'breaks' community. There's also a good tune early on side 1, I think it's part 3 of a suite, something about '...Ibis'? You'll know it anyway it's like a crescendo that breaks and you get a saxophone-led groove that just kicks ass.

      A top quality record. And Stevie Winwood too.

      Benicio
      Jet Boy stole my baby.

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      • #4
        Belson, no it's one of them with his bird and the back is the other one with his missus, too. Well worth tracking down, though (another B-Side The C-Side visit is how I found it).

        Cheers for info, BDT!
        http://www.djhistory.com

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        • #5
          Originally posted by [b
          Quote[/b] (Benicio Del Toffo @ Aug. 19 2003,15:07)]Doesn't the young lady on the front look like Caroline Aherne?!
          I thought I was the only one who thought that!

          Great LP. Don't know much about it, here's what a fansite said about it:

          I met and interviewed Ian McDonald when Foreigner made its debut late in the seventies. In the interim McDonald had done relatively little on record, although he produced (and added a few sax bits to) albums by T Rex, Fruupp, Fireballet, Wolf and others. He told me that making McDONALD & GILES had taken a lot out of him, alluding to a nervous breakdown following its completion.

          The core band on the album is a trio made up of Ian on a wide variety of instruments (guitar, piano, organ, saxes, flute, clarinet, and zither, plus "sundries&quot and vocals, Mike on drums, percussion and vocals, and Peter Giles on bass. This is effectively the same lineup as that of King Crimson's precursor, Giles, Giles & Fripp (THE CHEERFUL INSANITY OF GILES, GILES & FRIPP), with Fripp out and McDonald in. Augmentation comes from "strings and brass on 'Birdman' and 'Suite in C' arranged and conducted by Mike Gray," and guest musicians Steve Winwood and trombonist Michael Blakesley.

          The album opens with "Suite in C; including Turnham Green, Here I Am, and others." It was written during and after King Crimson's U.S. tour, "in Detroit, Los Angeles and Earls Court between December 1969 and February 1970" by Ian (both words & music). Steve Winwood, then at the early height of his career, contributed organ and piano solos to the "Turnham Green" section. This piece has virtually nothing in common with the music of King Crimson, but does not suffer in comparison. It draws instead upon the British music hall tradition, and perhaps American stripper's music, heavy on the backbeat in sections, employing hand-claps, and rhythmically quite different from Crimson as well. (This is as much Mike Giles' album as it is Ian McDonald's; his drumming is incredible throughout and has no peer.) The melodies are warm, almost "good-timey" and utterly lacking the doom-ridden qualities typical of Crimson. The production has subtle psychedelic touches, and the lyrics are slyly seductive ("Come along with me / We can have some tea / Brewed by me for thee my love / Come inside and you will see/ Come inside and you will see&quot. The piece is a suite, as the title implies, and moves among several melodies, lasting over 11 minutes.

          "Flight of the Ibis" has music by McDonald and words by B.P. Fallon. A short, song-length piece, the music is "the original melody for 'Cadence & Cascade' [which appeared on the second Crimson album] written in Spring 1969 with new words from Beep." In other words, in the splitup of Crimson, Fripp got to keep Sinfield's lyrics for "Cadence & Cascade," but had to supply a new melody, while McDonald took the melody and had to have new lyrics written. In an alternate reality in which Crimson did not split up we'd have heard McDonald's melody to "Cadence & Cascade" on Crimson's second album.

          Even shorter (less than three minutes) is "Is She Waiting?" written entirely by McDonald "in Earls Court in the summer of '69, between [Crimson] gigs." A lovely tune, it would undoubtedly have appeared on a Crimson album had McDonald stayed with the group.

          Side one of the original LP closed with Michael Giles' composition, "Tomorrow's People -- The Children of Today." It is on this track that Blakesley contributes his multitracked trombone, giving the piece a brassier sound. Giles had started the piece in 1967, undoubtedly for Giles, Giles & Fripp, but completed it in 1970, post-Crimson. It is stronger and more ambitious than most of Giles' contributions to the G,G & F album and works well here.

          Side two of the LP was given over entirely to the almost-22-minute "Birdman," whose full title is "Birdman; involving The Inventor's Dream (O.U.A.T.), The Workshop, Wishbone Ascension, Birdman Flies!, Wings In The Sunset, Birdman -- The Reflection." The piece was a collaboration between McDonald (music) and Peter Sinfield (lyrics). Sinfield had been Ian's friend, whom Ian introduced to Giles, Giles & Fripp when he joined that band in 1968. It was Sinfield who gave the band its new name, "King Crimson," and wrote the majority of King Crimson's original lyrics (and continued to do so through the fourth Crimson album, ISLANDS). "Birdman" was "mostly written in the spring of 1968, apart from the Flying bit which was done in 1970. Original idea by Peter Sinfield." That is, most of the piece precedes Peter and Ian's entrance into the band that would become King Crimson. Crimson rehearsed at least parts of the piece (a few bars of the "Slowly Up, Then Slowly Down" section appear in King Crimson's live performance of "Trees" on the LIVE AT THE MARQUEE CLUB 1969 album, reviewed elsewhere here), and Fripp has indicated that it had been planned for the second Crimson album at that point.

          The piece is a delightful fantasy about a dotty inventor who dreams of flying and builds the wings that allow him to achieve his dream. Very English, and very optimistic -- unlike most of Crimson's material. The melodies soar, and this piece is the climax, both artistically and emotionally, of the album. It and "Suite In C" provide very strong bookends to the album as a whole, which is even more apparent on the CD version, which of course plays continuously from the first track to the last.
          He also contributed songs for the Jim Henson movie vehicle 'Muppets From Space'.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by [b
            Quote[/b] (Belson @ Aug. 19 2003,14:56)]What does the cover look like, LBG?

            Are they sitting outside a shack on the front sort of porch area looking kind of scruffy?
            are you thinking of Teegarden and Van Winkle, Greg?
            We know when a mate buys it for you too.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by [b
              Quote[/b] (john stapleton @ Aug. 19 2003,16:58)]
              Originally posted by [b
              Quote[/b] (Belson @ Aug. 19 2003,14:56)]What does the cover look like, LBG?

              Are they sitting outside a shack on the front sort of porch area looking kind of scruffy?
              are you thinking of Teegarden and Van Winkle, Greg?
              Yeah - I did a little googling and found the sleeve for M & G gatefold. I do have it somewhere, but haven't played it for ages. Still, both albums kinda cut from the same cloth, don't you think? Only the T & W not quite as good.

              The McDonald & Giles got a Cotillion release in the US and an Island release here - also noticed that it's had a fairly recent Japanese release too, for those looking for a copy.

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              • #8
                This album bombed when it came out(1970) and they never did anything else together.I love this sort of stuff,over indulgent prog MMmmm lovely.Check out "in the wake of posidon" & "Islands" by King crimson for more of the same.If your copy is on the pink island label it's worth a few bob.
                -
                You thought the leaden winter would bring you down forever,
                but you rode upon a steamer to the violence of the sun.

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                • #9
                  Yep, it's on pink Island. Sam at B-Side asked me why I was buying it because he'd bought three of them on a shopping trip in the Netherlands and had sold them all in a fortnight. I'm assuming it was either beat-diggers after the break or prog-happy fans. Well worth 9 quid.
                  http://www.djhistory.com

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                  • #10
                    This lp sounds like something I need to get!

                    Here is a nice site. http://www.dprp.vuurwerk.nl/forgotten/index.html
                    www.thesoundlibrary.net <- Changed URL

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                    • #11
                      Oh god, now yer talking, The Enid (&#39;In the region of the summer stars&#39; et al) i&#39;ve got bloody loads of thier lp&#39;s, they play a kind of hippy/mystical &#39;ambient&#39; prog type stuff, covers of things like &#39;scarborough fayre&#39; but with billions of synths and the worlds most expensive fookin&#39; Lexicon reverb unit&#33;&#33;, some of it aint too bad actually, but unfortunately for me i was introduced to their music years ago, by a hippie pot smokin&#39; cousin of mine and heard most of it erm...&#39;under the influence&#39; as it were&#33;, at the time i thought it sounded like the fookin&#39; music of the spheres, but hey my judgement was severely impaired and a lot of the stuff has not stood the test of time well, smokin&#39; copious quantities of &#39;erb is no good for objectivity, but hell it&#39;s fookin&#39; loadsa fun&#33;&#33;&#33; (and there are MUCH worse things to imbibe than a wee smoke).
                      derelicts of dialect

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                      • #12
                        A mate of mine went to see them in concert a few months ago.
                        He said they still kicked ass &amp; their was drum break-o-rama&#33;
                        Go on wit'cha bad elf

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                        • #13
                          I got this LP strictly for the tip on the breaks and played it, shelved it and then recently dug it out to re-discover a little left field gem. Nice when that happens and as far as I know, this little LP kicks up a fair bit of interest on the &#39;bay still, the Yanks digging this joint almost as much as the Japanese digging fraternity.
                          Anybody picking up on the recently re-issued Barry Dranfield yet, the track &quot;Werewolf&quot; is wonderful. Tip-top tip kids&#33;
                          I was raised by wolves

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                          • #14
                            was searching for some info on King Crimson and I came across this thread- hope you lot don&#39;t mind it being brought back up to the top, Hadrians post had so much info I thought the &#39;newbies&#39; might enjoy reading the thread

                            my question is on the first King Crimson LP - In the court of the King Crimson, basically is it worth acquiring? a    off-the-beaten-path spot of mine has a copy but no listening facilities, tips appreciated

                             

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by [b
                              Quote[/b] (rolex baxter @ Jan. 23 2004,03:51)]was searching for some info on King Crimson and I came across this thread- hope you lot don&#39;t mind it being brought back up to the top, Hadrians post had so much info I thought the &#39;newbies&#39; might enjoy reading the thread  

                              my question is on the first King Crimson LP - In the court of the King Crimson, basically is it worth acquiring? a    off-the-beaten-path spot of mine has a copy but no listening facilities, tips appreciated

                               
                              The first King Crimson LP could reasonably described as the first prog album. It&#39;s an acquired taste. You probably know 21st Schizoid Man, which is the best known tune. The rest is proggy jazz rock, some of it self indulgent nonsense. I still like 21st Schizoid Man, though I&#39;m not quite sure why. It&#39;s perfectly ridiculous.
                              http://www.djhistory.com

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